WSM MAGNUM
New member
I store gunpowder in the same cabinet that I keep some some small tools in. Some of the tools have slight corrosion on them, some do not. Can gunpowder cause corrosion?
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Gunpowder and corrosion question
- Thread starter WSM MAGNUM
- Start date
WSM MAGNUM
New member
Ok, thanks. Just wanted to make sure.
I`m in the basement. The basement does not have extreme temperature changes, and is not heated or cooled. It is finished and carpeted. The temps in the winter do not go below 65F, nor over 75F in the summer. I don`t know what the humidity levels are. I think those changes are causing a little bit of condensation.
I`m in the basement. The basement does not have extreme temperature changes, and is not heated or cooled. It is finished and carpeted. The temps in the winter do not go below 65F, nor over 75F in the summer. I don`t know what the humidity levels are. I think those changes are causing a little bit of condensation.
JoeSixpack
New member
I have humidity problems in my garage get your self a large dehumidifier.
Even if the basement is finished It's not a bad idea.
Even if the basement is finished It's not a bad idea.
WSM MAGNUM
New member
Thanks again. I`ll consider getting a de-humidifier when I can.
roashooter
Moderator
gunpowder can not cause corrosion...but acids from your touching the tools can....but here is a tip...a little oil on tools will prevent corrosion...
Primers can give of fumes.
Percussion caps can REALLY give off fumes.
Could be a factor if you let them build up for a dozen years or so.....as I did one time...(long story short - I left an open tin of percussion caps inside a presentation box in my sock drawer & for got about it for a dozen years....bad move...)
Primers in loaded ammunition can give off teeny tiny itty bitty amounts of fumes - not enough to worry about for 50 years or so...
Percussion caps can REALLY give off fumes.
Could be a factor if you let them build up for a dozen years or so.....as I did one time...(long story short - I left an open tin of percussion caps inside a presentation box in my sock drawer & for got about it for a dozen years....bad move...)
Primers in loaded ammunition can give off teeny tiny itty bitty amounts of fumes - not enough to worry about for 50 years or so...
Mike Irwin
Staff
Actually, gunpowder CAN cause corrosion...
But only if the gunpowder itself is starting to decay and breakdown, releasing acids and acid vapor.
That's why you'll see a can with bad powder rusting from the inside out.
But only if the gunpowder itself is starting to decay and breakdown, releasing acids and acid vapor.
That's why you'll see a can with bad powder rusting from the inside out.
50 shooter
New member
Black powder is corrosive, something else to think about.
Some powders are hygroscopic, which means that they attract moisture and I'm pretty sure some of the residue from being fired is hygroscopic also. That's why it's a good idea to do at least a light cleaning when you get home from the range.
It's also a good idea to treat all foreign ammo as corrosive primed. I know that (newer stuff) probably isn't but I've seen tests done on stuff that supposedly wasn't and still caused the test steel to rust.
Some powders are hygroscopic, which means that they attract moisture and I'm pretty sure some of the residue from being fired is hygroscopic also. That's why it's a good idea to do at least a light cleaning when you get home from the range.
It's also a good idea to treat all foreign ammo as corrosive primed. I know that (newer stuff) probably isn't but I've seen tests done on stuff that supposedly wasn't and still caused the test steel to rust.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"Black powder is corrosive, something else to think about."
Black powder is generally only corrosive once it has been fired. It's mildly hygroscopic/corrosive in the unfired form, but is far more so after its fired because of the combination of water attracted by the sodium/potassium chloride combining with the sulfur to create an acidic solution.
That said, unless the other items in the cabinet were coated with black powder residue or were in contact with a hygroscopic smokeless powder, those items are less likely to rust because the powder is actually drying the air in the cabinet.
But, if the powder were actually decomposing, those acidic fumes become airborne in the enclosed space and cause corrosion.
Black powder is generally only corrosive once it has been fired. It's mildly hygroscopic/corrosive in the unfired form, but is far more so after its fired because of the combination of water attracted by the sodium/potassium chloride combining with the sulfur to create an acidic solution.
That said, unless the other items in the cabinet were coated with black powder residue or were in contact with a hygroscopic smokeless powder, those items are less likely to rust because the powder is actually drying the air in the cabinet.
But, if the powder were actually decomposing, those acidic fumes become airborne in the enclosed space and cause corrosion.
Jim Watson
New member
If you don't use chlorate primers or caps (Where would you GET chlorate primers or caps? Remington, CCI, and RWS caps are noncorrosive.) black powder fouling is mostly potassium carbonate which is alkaline.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"black powder fouling is mostly potassium carbonate which is alkaline."
Uhm... as I understand the reaction, no.
Black powder formulations that don't use sulfur, yes, potassium carbonate is formed by the reduction reaction.
However, formulas containing sulfur (which I believe most still do today) form different reduction byproducts and form little, if any, potassium carbonate.
There's a breakdown on this page...
http://www.musketeer.ch/blackpowder/recipe.html
In the black powder with sulfur you get a significant amount of potassium sulfide in the fouling. Potassium sulfide is EXTREMELY hygroscopic, and when combined with water creates potassium hydrosulfide and potassium hydroxide.
Potassium hydroxide is, of course, basic, but as it has been explained to me there's not enough potassium hydroxide formed by the reaction to fully neutralize the acidic by products that you get from all of the unreacted sulfur (and there's a fair amount) left over, so you end up with a mildly acidic solution.
Uhm... as I understand the reaction, no.
Black powder formulations that don't use sulfur, yes, potassium carbonate is formed by the reduction reaction.
However, formulas containing sulfur (which I believe most still do today) form different reduction byproducts and form little, if any, potassium carbonate.
There's a breakdown on this page...
http://www.musketeer.ch/blackpowder/recipe.html
In the black powder with sulfur you get a significant amount of potassium sulfide in the fouling. Potassium sulfide is EXTREMELY hygroscopic, and when combined with water creates potassium hydrosulfide and potassium hydroxide.
Potassium hydroxide is, of course, basic, but as it has been explained to me there's not enough potassium hydroxide formed by the reaction to fully neutralize the acidic by products that you get from all of the unreacted sulfur (and there's a fair amount) left over, so you end up with a mildly acidic solution.
Jim Watson
New member
Well, I was going by such references as
http://www.cherrytreefamily.com/blackpowderhistory.htm
which says:
"So then it was back to the works of Noble & Abel to look at what chemical compounds are present in black powder bore fouling. Work on the pH of black powder residue showed the presence of potassium carbonate, or potash. The gunpowder residue analysis work of Noble & Abel shows that the major portions of the solid residue consists of potassium carbonate and potassium sulfate. The exact proportions of these in the residue will change somewhat with the brand of powder being used and the temperature at which the powder burns. But in any case there is a greater amount of potassium carbonate compared to potassium sulfate. Roughly 3 to 4 times as much potassium carbonate as potassium sulfate."
http://www.cherrytreefamily.com/blackpowderhistory.htm
which says:
"So then it was back to the works of Noble & Abel to look at what chemical compounds are present in black powder bore fouling. Work on the pH of black powder residue showed the presence of potassium carbonate, or potash. The gunpowder residue analysis work of Noble & Abel shows that the major portions of the solid residue consists of potassium carbonate and potassium sulfate. The exact proportions of these in the residue will change somewhat with the brand of powder being used and the temperature at which the powder burns. But in any case there is a greater amount of potassium carbonate compared to potassium sulfate. Roughly 3 to 4 times as much potassium carbonate as potassium sulfate."
Mike Irwin
Staff
I'll admit that I'm not a chemist, and it's been a LONG time since I've studied chemistry, but I simply can't see how you can get any significant amount of potassium carbonate in black powder fouling when sulfur is involved. It completely changes the reaction chain.