Gun Shows - Free Fire Zones

[Departed402]

I've been to many gun shows, and without exception they have all had big signs at the entrance saying "NO LOADED FIREARMS BEYOND THIS POINT." Private sellers' guns' actions are zip-tied or otherwise render safe, and they are allowed entry. The "no loaded firearms" rule seems to apply to everyone, including conceal carry permit holders. So if everyone follows the rules, as I understand them, Gun Shows are dreaded free fire zones, meaning there is no "good guy with a (loaded) gun," unless on-duty law enforcement is present. I'm not a paranoid cop-hater, in fact I am a deputy sheriff, and I find on-duty LEOs comforting. Anyway, as a LEO who carries off-duty I generally have the same restrictions as CC permit holders, so gun free zones apply to me as well. So I stand beside CC permit holders who hate gun free zones. I personally follow the laws in accordance with gun free zones, because if I was caught breaking them that would look particularly bad. I won't judge if you don't follow those rules to the letter, as I am suffering some cognitive dissonance myself.

As people who conceal carry we often argue that more areas should allow concealed carry. So when gun shows are not open to concealed carry it almost feels like a betrayal since they are "our events." So here are some questions I thought we could discuss. Are gun shows in your area free fire zones? If you're a conceal carry permit holder how do you handle gun shows being free fire zones?

Personally, I either won't bring my gun, or I will lock it in my vehicle before going into the show. I hate doing both.

 

[g.willikers]

It's probably a liability insurance requirement.
With so many guns being fondled, sold and traded at a show, and generally passed from hand to hand, it might be hard to know which guns are loaded, if they weren't all that way.

 

[KMAX]

Concealed is concealed. Are there metal detectors a the gun shows. I understand your concern, but I don't believe there would much complaint if you had to draw and use your CCW in a good shoot. As was said it is probably a liability issue. It is sort of like setting up a target for a nut case assailant with the gun free zones. I too have these same concerns about carrying concealed.

 

[Pahoo]

Not consistant

In our area, they are not consistent. Perhaps it's because some are manned by city police, sheriff's deputies, state troopers and then again, others by private contactors and yes, they are all posted as gun free zones. Now, at some, if you have a permit, you can carry CC but not loaded, so you don't have to worry about leaving it, in the car. At the door, you show and they hang a tag on the trigger guard. Then others tie the action down, as they determine. The state troopers seem to have more of an attitude and are less friendly than the locals. .....

I always go into a show with a bag. Last week, a trooper asked my if I had a gun in the bag. I replied that I did not. Then he either asked me if he could look or he just decided to do so. It took me by surprise so I can't remember. At any rate, he just said okay and I walked in. I don't feel he had a right to do so. ....

By the way, there are always and there have always been loaded guns, on the floor, regardless of any postings. ....

Be Safe !!!

 

[g.willikers]

Yeah, I've been at a couple of shows where loaded guns announced themselves load and clear.
Fortunately no one was injured, but lots of people displayed excellent jumping skills, including me.

 

[James K]

I have to say that the few times shots have been fired at shows I have been at it was the negligence of exhibitors, not of either attendees or some looney from outside. In one almost humorous case, a cartridge collector took a pinfire blank from his display to show to a prospective buyer and dropped it. Naturally, it landed on the pin.

Jim

 

[madmo44mag]

I was at a show once where a vendor was selling this little impact pop toys.
They were some sort of impact explosive in little plastic bubbles.
Throw them on the floor and "BANG"
Well these things were popping all over the place.
It was like being in a room full of nervous cats in a rocking chair factory.

 

[Jo6pak]

There are many concealed firearms at gunshows. If you keep your eyes open you will spot who is carrying, vendors included.

 

[Kimber84]

I was at the Medina, Oh gun show last year when some jerkoff pulled out his pistol (concealed) and handed it over to a dealer to look at... Result was a discharge into the floor injuring a bystander.

I'm not sure how I feel after that... You'll never fix stupid, but had he followed the stated rules ( more venue related) this wouldn't have happened.

 

[crashxl]

Every gun show I have been to around here they unload all firearms and use zip ties to make them safe. They usually have a few armed Leo's there if trouble starts. Honestly the shows are so packed I don't know how you would get a clean shot at someone who decided to get trigger happy. Kinda like shooting fish in a barrel but they give you a shotgun and tell you to only shoot the bad fish.

 

[SVTCobra306]

I've never been to a show that didn't have law enforcement at the door and/or walking around the show area. I only go to large shows and local shows, I live in a very rural area so I guess the local Sheriff's offices can afford the time to be present, I'm not sure.

 

[Tom Servo]

Here's how those signs happen.

Joe Bob sees a holster that might fit his gun. Without asking or warning anyone, he whips out his pistol, sweeps everyone unfortunate enough to be in his vicinity, then starts trying to cram it in the holster. When asked, he'll swear it's not loaded, though it usually is.

If he's gotten this far without having an ND, someone will call him on it, and he'll start screeching about ohmigodyoudon'tsupportmahrights.

Of course, a sign won't stop Joe Bob, but anyone who works around guns has had that happen, and the thought has crossed their minds. We all pay for the sins of the lowest common denominator.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

As people who conceal carry we often argue that more areas should allow concealed carry. So when gun shows are not open to concealed carry it almost feels like a betrayal since they are "our events." So here are some questions I thought we could discuss. Are gun shows in your area free fire zones? If you're a conceal carry permit holder how do you handle gun shows being free fire zones?

Personally, I either won't bring my gun, or I will lock it in my vehicle before going into the show. I hate doing both.

Gun shows around here are as you describe -- firearms must be unloaded and the action gets a zip-tie through it.

The first one I attended, I did as required. Since then, I don't carry when attending.

 

[Kreyzhorse]

There are many concealed firearms at gunshows. If you keep your eyes open you will spot who is carrying, vendors included

+1. I've never considered a gun show a free fire zone. There are lots of people with CCW guns and I'd doubt many of them are empty. And as a side note, concealed means concealed people.... I amazed at the amount of people who print or allow their holster to hang out below their shirts but I digress.

Now as far as loaded guns at a gun show, I've seen so much poor gun handling that I'm okay with requiring all guns be empty. I actually had a shotgun pointed inches from the side of my head once and wasn't real happy about it. I'm also sure that the requirement, besides from the common sense standpoint, is tied to insurance requirements.

 

[johnwilliamson062]

I'd say carrying at gun shows probably isn't going to bother anyone unless you unholster the loaded firearm. If you see a holster you absolutely have to try out, go to your car and CAREFULLY make the firearm safe. They don't check all that well at the door. It is effectively voluntary in my experience.

I don't believe the restriction even applies to dealers at the shows I attend. Quite sure some dealers do carry.
I do follow the rules as I am sure there are huge numbers of armed people anyways. If I had to I could probably load any number of the guns on a table with ammo for sale quite quickly.

 

[Tom Servo]

If I had to I could probably load any number of the guns on a table with ammo for sale quite quickly.

...and that tends to happen, which is one of the reasons for the no-guns policies we see. I know of two ND's over the last five years at local shows which were caused by people loading guns at the table with ammunition they'd brought in.

Frankly, I can imagine the organizers seeing the "concealed is concealed" comments and feeling vindicated in continuing to ban guns.

 

[kraigwy]

My club puts on gun shows, and like mention, says "no loaded firearms" however there is an exception, that being concealed weapons. As long as it stays in your pocket we don't care.

However we require all guns brought in for sale or trade to have a zip tie to show the gun is empty in in operative.

But concealed is concealed. I you want to show people your carry gun, fine, unload it and we will put on a zip tag.

There is no reason to be banishing, concealed means concealed.

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

The 30.06 signs went up at some TX shows after NDs.

The owner of the show told me he was furious but he had to do it for insurance purposes. He said it sent the wrong message but his hand was forced.

 

[psyfly]

For those of you not in TX; if a locale is posted with the proper (30.06) sign, it is illegal for you to carry. "Concealed is concealed" just doesn't really apply.

From the insurer's point of view, most of the gun show patrons, including those who may be careless and negligent, are among the law-abiding and won't become a liability.

Upside, I went to a gun show a couple of weeks ago that had the 30.06 posted and, despite the annoyance, I scored a S&W K22 I've been wanting for years. I did not see a single armed security person so didn't feel particularly protected.

Best,

Will

 

[SaxonPig]

1. If the show venue is public property, like a fairground or community center, local or state law may prohibit concealed carry/loaded guns.

2. Insurance carriers may demand this as a condition to insure the event.

3. Saying "concealed is concealed" means break the law and plan to not get caught? Foolish idea and bad advice, IMO.

I have been at a show when an AD occurred. Shopper picked up a 30-06 rifle and pulled the trigger. Boom! Good thing the muzzle was pointed straight up at the ceiling. Seller adamantly claimed he had no ammo for the rifle and could not have loaded it. Said maybe an anti-gun idiot came through and slipped a round in the chamber hoping for bad PR. I'd like to think that nobody would be that evil. Perhaps it was loaded when he bought it and never checked the chamber.