Gun permits in New York?

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Mastrogiacomo

New member
Sorry if I'm repeating a question, but I'm new to this forum. As a resident of Massachusetts, I have a Class B permit which allows me to have a gun in my home. I have two guns, a S&W .38 and a Beretta 92FS Compact Type M. I've been thinking of moving to New York for years but it's still in "how to get there" phase. I don't know anything about owning a gun in New York. I'm told New Yorkers aren't even allowed to go to gun stores without "the government's permission." Anyone have time to address some questions on the subject?:eek:

1. What is needed to get a Class B in New York, and does it vary
depending on where in New York.

2. How expensive is it to get a carry permit and how do you go
about it?

By the way, it's not easy here either. I had wanted to work in the North End over the summer. The Chief denied my request. In fact, the North End, where I had hoped to work, this summer saw a number of women being sexually assaulted. This wasn't a good enough reason for the police to allow me to carry a weapon. It didn't matter that I'd be working at night, going to an abandoned lot and working in the North End. Go figure...I'd appreciate any feedback. Thank you.:cool:
 
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Bill Barrett

New member
It varies greatly from county to county. Almost impossible in the "City". You must be a resident of the jurisdiction where you are applying. Mine (I moved from NY a couple months ago) came from Stuben County (one of the more gun friendly counties) and took about 5 months. There you need 3 county residents as references, that will vouch for you, 2 Fingerprint cards, 2 passport photo's, you will be interviewed (Your references will be too) and about $125 (including picture fees) A permit to own is also a concealed carry permit since you cannot do open carry. Some jurisdictions restrict to travel between the residence and range or to and from hunting.
 
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Legionnaire

New member
Like Firemedic said, it varies. There are several different kinds of permits issued in NYS. Without going into all the finer details, there are basically two permits available to those who do not have a work-related reason for carrying: a P or premise permit, which gives you permission to keep a gun at the premises listed on the permit, and a C or Carry permit. Historically, either could be used to take a gun to a dedicated range.

The permits are issued by the county, but are valid statewide (except NYC). And there's the rub. Some judges began putting restrictions on C permits, such as "Hunting and Target Shooting Only." This is an administrative restriction that says you can use a C permit to carry a firearm afield and use on at the range, but cannot use it to carry a concealed weapon. However, the NY Court of Appeals (our equiv. to a Supreme Court) has ruled that a C permit is a carry permit, regardless of restrictions. If you are found to be carrying outside the restrictions on your permit, the judge can revoke your permit (they are issued at the judge's discretion, we are not a "shall issue" state), but you can't be charged with a crime.

Some counties give unrestricted C permits fairly easily; others are a real headache, if not nigh impossible. You have to take a safety course (familiarization, not a shooting course), go through a criminal background check, fingerprinting, photos, etc. It isn't cheap, and it isn't fast. Typically no way for a non-resident to get a permit. Most folks go after a C permit, expecting to get it restricted, and then work on a strategy for getting the restrictions lifted.

Changes with the judges, too. When I first arrived in Onondaga county, unrestricted C permits were fairly common; but new judge, and they all but disappeared. He was eventually disbarred, and now the judges are more open to being convinced.

NY is not easy. But it's better than MA.
 
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Mastrogiacomo

New member
:eek: I'm not sure I follow where New York is better than Massachusetts. How? I applied for my Class A to find work in armed security and to have the right to carry. Iwas denied and settled for a B to at least own it and have it for the range. I took a pistol saftey course/or firearm safety course. That cost me about $99.00 and another $45 for the permit. I had to bring a licence and another form of identification. I had my finger prints taken twice, before and after including the photo. There was a week which I suppose was the background check and it was mailed to me. In three years, I'll be upgraded to an A -- with or without the job. Before the three year time, I need a job requiring a gun for the Class A. From everything I've been hearing, and if I understand it right, it seems Massachusetts beats New York easily. People have told me there's no way to get a Class A without money to hire a good lawyer and get through all the paper work.

By the way, if I just move someplace, where would I find three residents to vouch for me? Don't they require you know them for a year?
 
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Peetmoss

New member
Hey Legionnaire I live in Onondaga County too. I was wondering your thoughts on this situation. I am going to be finger printed and photographed tommorow for my permit application. I was told to ask for Posses on Premise with hunting and target shooting as it was extremly hard to be denied said permit. I really want a Carry Concealed but was told to beg the judge for that later do you think I did the right thing? Also any body got any Ideas on a good reason to tell the judge when I end up begging for my carry permit. In Onondaga County you must show cause for a carry permitt.
 
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Walther P99

New member
Legionnaire & Peetmoss

I used to live in Baldwinsville (near Syracuse) until 1992, when I move to Indiana...then on to Texas in 1997.

Anyway, out of those 3 states I've lived in, NY was definitely the worst for any king of gun ownership. My father had a .38 Special (may have been a .357, don't remember), but sold it when he moved to NY (way back in 1972) becuase of all the hassle. As soon as we moved to IN, we started buying guns again...
 
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Legionnaire

New member
Sorry guys, been away from the 'puter for a couple of days.

Peetmoss, I think I probably know the guy you took your class from. He always advocates a Premises permit. Unless things have changed dramatically, though, you should request a CARRY permit to be used for "possession at home, hunting, and target shooting." You should receive a carry permit with restrictions which, in my opinion, is better than a Premise permit with privileges. I'm not a lawyer, nor do I pretend to be one. But the courts have ruled that a carry permit is a carry permit, and if you are caught carrying outside your restrictions, although your permit can be revoked, you cannot be charged with a crime. Not sure the same would be true if carrying on a premise permit.

I recommend you get a copy of New York's Firearms and Weapons Laws: Gun Control in New York by Lee O. Thomas and Jeffrey Chamberlain, published by Looseleaf Law Publications.

Mastro, I didn't know one could be upgraded to class A automatically. The problem in NY state is that the ease of getting an unrestricted carry permit varies by county. There are some where it is fairly simple ... others that are nigh on impossible. So maybe I misspoke comparing NY to MA. All I've heard about MA makes MA sound impossible. But, I've not done all the homework on MA, so I guess I spoke too soon.
 
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12GA

New member
I've completed the NYS application process in Albany county

I've attended the required Pistol Safety Course ($30), obtained four character references and four 1 1/2 x 1 1/2 passport photos ($20), filled out two pistol permit applications, obtained a certified driver's abstract from DMV ($5), and have been interviewed and fingerprinted by the local police department ($74). I submitted the application during the 2nd week of July. When I finally receive the CCW it will read restricted to Hunting, Fishing and Target Shooting. That's the only way the judge in Albany county will issue pistol permits. The best argument that I've heard for requesting the removal of these restrictions goes like this:
Explain that you actively participate in competitive target shooting, and that you would like to participate in matches out-of-state (Florida) however, Florida will not issue you a permit unless your NYS permit is unrestricted. <fingers crossed>Then ask the nice man to please remove the restrictions.</fingers crossed>

Firemedic is correct. Packing.org is a great resource for CCW information. Another good one regarding NYS CCW is The Gun Zone
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Peetmoss

New member
Thanks Legionnaire. I forget the guys name but I took my class at the Otisco Rod and gun club. When I went down to the sherriffs dept. today and the lady that went over my papper work with me had me change it to that excate same thing you suggested. Thanks.:D
 
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Dark Avenger

New member
Massachusetts is a complete gamble. Getting a permit is COMPLETELY dependant on the the chief of police of the town you live in.

The 1998 law has a bunch of the usual objective rquirements like not being a felon, mental patient, habitual drunk, or dumb enough to say that you are.

The tricky part is that the chief of police of the town you reside in can MAKE HIS OWN RULES regarding the issuance of CCW (LTC) permits. Without exploring the huge conflict of interest attendant with LEO's making the rules they are to enforce, you can see that this will lead to each and every municiality being different.

In addition to being able to add requirements (like letters of recommendation, excepional training, or doctor's notes, or particular job requirements) the chief can deny you on pretty much any grounds.

Your best bet is to call the GOAL hotline (look it up at http://www.goal.org) and ask about whqt town in MA would be a good choice to move to in order to get your Class A ALP. And for God's sake become a memeber if you aren't already.
 
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M1911

New member
Mastro:

Over on 1911, I suggested that you 1) contact GOAL (you are a member, aren't you? and if not, why?), 2) call the licensing officer, explain the catch-22 their policy is putting you in, and ask if they would issue you a Class A LTC limited to employment. Have you done either of those things? And if so, what was the response?

Btw, once again, you just mentioned getting a Class A. As I explained in other posts, simply getting a Class A is necessary but not sufficient. If they give you a Class A with a reason for issuance of "target and hunting" then you can't carry concealed.

As Dark Avenger mentioned, it all depends upon the town you live in. In my town, most everyone gets a Class A for All Lawful Purposes.
 
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