Gun Culture 2.0

[NRAhab]

I was having a discussion with some other gun folks at an event back in November about how the face of the gun community is changing. The general gist of the conversation is that sales of guns designed for carry, competition, and home defense as well as AR pattern rifles has far outstripped the sales of guns and gear that are thought of as "traditional" hunting items. Coupled with the nationwide decline in hunting (permits are down across the country) but the simultaneous increase in gun sales points to a new shooting demographic. You don't really have to look any further than an indoor gun range to see that new demographic. When I walk a firing line and I feel like the old guy, I know that there has been a shift, especially when the only guns I see on the line are 1911s, Glocks, XDs, and M&Ps - all guns set up for concealed carry.

So here's my question, because it's one that I think is worth discussing. How do we reach that culture? A kid walks in a gunshop and wants to see Gun X because he used it in a video game, how do we react? How do we get a generation that does all its research online to find quality information about guns and gear? And most importantly, how do we take a kid that plays Call of Duty (it was Counterstrike when I was that age, oh how the times have changed) and convert them into a lifelong shooter?

 

[oneounceload]

Introduce them to hunting.
Teach them there is more to guns than CCW/HD/SD platforms
Teach them to shoot shotgun games, BPCR, CASS, etc.

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

SIZE OF HOUSEHOLD FIREARM
COLLECTIONS: IMPLICATIONS FOR
SUBCULTURES AND GENDER*
BRIAN R. WYANT
RALPH B. TAYLOR
Department of Criminal Justice

CRIMINOLOGY VOLUME 45 NUMBER 3 2007 519

- That trend is noted in the literature and industry groups like the NSSF are seeing that as the wave of the future. It was resisted by the sports group for awhile but folks aren't dumb. Jan Libourel of Handguns told me that he would have like to publish more sports, marksmanship, hunting articles but the SD ones sell.

I regret to tell you this but it's the future of the RKBA. You aren't going to get massive waves of young folks from the urban and suburban areas interest in hunting enough to make it dominant in the gun culture.The shotgun games are expensive.

The base of the RKBA movement will be SD in the future. Of course, I'm not disparaging the efforts but just reporting the way the trends are.

 

[gunsafereviewer]

Interesting Question

So the kids are shooting for sport, except the prey is a target rather than live game.

These ARE kids that really don't know how to appreciate the stillness of the woods, the mist at dawn-some of the great things about hunting...instead, their attentions are so short I don't think they could stand sitting against a tree or in a tree stand. Can you imagine? They still-hunt while running...

 

[NRAhab]

I agree that SD and run-and-gun games are the future of the RKBA movement. I don't want to lose the hunting culture, but just take a look for a moment at the TV shows used to market hunting. It's 20 minutes of two dudes whispering and 1 minute of actual shooting action. Contrast that with a show like SWAT TV, which has lots of shooting and action and shows people the exact same gear that they see in video games. Is it any surprise that shows like that are what people want?

Look at History Channel's Top Shot as another good example. Great ratings, incredibly popular, and not a single "hunting" rifle to be seen. Even the one rifle that is actually a hunting rifle (the Remington 700) was portrayed as a sniper rifle.

I'm not even speculating about converting the Call of Duty players to hunters. I just want them to be shooters and active in the gun culture. How do we do that?

 

[MLeake]

Shorter attention spans...

... are probably at least as much to blame as lack of exposure.

I've never been a huge fan of fishing, because I don't like sitting around all day waiting for a bite.

I'd rather be canoeing, kayaking, rafting, etc.

Similarly, while I do sometimes hunt, and plan to hunt in the future, I have to admit I enjoy the faster pace of a games oriented range.

And I don't get the slow fire rifle guys, who shoot a round a minute (or less). I have no problem with their enjoyment or pursuit of the hobby, but it doesn't grab me.

And I'm in my 40s...

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

So here's my question, because it's one that I think is worth discussing. How do we reach that culture?

Hunting is in decline partly because of dwindling available land, and steadily rising costs. When I was a youth, I lived in a rural area and many of my friends had family land I could hunt merely by asking. Hunting clubs were a couple of hundred bucks or less for membership.

Today, much of the land I hunted in my youth is covered in housing developments. Lease prices have gone over the moon here in Georgia; landowners who used to just look to cover taxes now look at leasing as a revenue stream (can't blame 'em).

When I was a youth, we regularly walked down the street with pistols, shotguns and rifles, on our way to the woods. What would happen to the kids of today if they did the same?

In this age of technology, we seem to have less free time than ever before. Time for hunting seems to always be in competition with some other obligation.

Kids today have many more options than we did growing up, "going outside to play" is looked at some kind of cruel and unusual punishment. The waiting and watching of hunting can't compare with the instant gratification of video games and television.

By the way, this wasn't way back in the dark ages, I'm only 37 years old...

 

[NRAhab]

What about information gathering for those kids? Let's make me a hypothetical Call of Duty player, and I want to find out information about the Remington ACR I play with. If I google search for the Bushhamster...er the Remington ACR I get a bajillion results from Remy's product page to various blogs and forum posts. If I wanted to then buy that gun, the experience becomes more disjointed.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Teach them there is more to guns than CCW/HD/SD platforms

There is?

Why do you feel you (or anyone) has to teach them this? Why should it make eny difference whatsoever? As was commented on innumerable times during the run-ups to both Heller and MacDonald, "The 2nd Amendment was never about hunting."

If somebody is interested in firearms for personal defense and nothing else -- so what? That's my interest. I'm a Vietnam veteran and a senior citizen. I have never been hunting in my life and I most likely won't start now. But I love firearms, and I take the defense of myself and my family and the Constitution seriously.

None of that requires a hunting license.

 

[hardworker]

People don't hunt because hunting is slowly becoming a rich man's sport. Rich people from the cities go out and buy up rural land and turn it into hunting preserves for other rich city people. At the same time, old family farms are being bought up by land management groups and a handful of rich rural landowners. If you're not in tight with the land management group or the rich landowner you don't get to hunt that land either. Not to mention that playing xbox provides instant satisfaction for today's short attention spanned youth.

 

[MLeake]

Hand in hand with the reduced hunting area....

... is increased hunter density.

I've had friends switch to bow and muzzle-loader, for the sole reason of minimizing the chances of getting shot by some random dude who doesn't properly check his target and backdrop.

Not that such ever happens...

Did I mention we don't take our horses out on trails during deer season?

 

[NRAhab]

What's interesting to me now is the number of comments that refer to the XBox generation as "short attention span" in the pejorative sense. This is actually the kind of commentary that hurts us - the blanket painting of the youthful shooter demographic as having a short attention span, being uninterested in gun safety, etc.

Check out this guy's youtube channel: www.youtube.com/freddiew - he's an amateur film dude that likes video games, and makes great, fun videos using film effects and airsoft guns. I think they're awesome fun to watch, and I'm not alone since he gets literally millions of hits on every new video he drops. I want those people watching his video to come to the range and shoot guns, but when they get disparaged in forums and gunshops for being "young" or "short attention span" I feel like it hurts us as a movement. How do we overcome that culturally and start welcoming these people, and even recruiting them?

 

[MLeake]

NRAhab...

... it isn't disparagement, it's just statement of observed fact. Studies have been published on it; educators set up lesson plans based upon it. One of the results of the internet and electronic revolution has been a decrease in attention span, with a rise in multi-tasking capability.

In general, kids today have shorter attention spans, but they can often do a whole lot of things at one time.

The desire for instant gratification has also been noted by various studies, with regards to the last couple generations. Not that we all don't like instant gratification, but the older we are, the less we seem to expect it.

 

[oneounceload]

There is?

Why do you feel you (or anyone) has to teach them this? Why should it make eny difference whatsoever? As was commented on innumerable times during the run-ups to both Heller and MacDonald, "The 2nd Amendment was never about hunting."

If somebody is interested in firearms for personal defense and nothing else -- so what? That's my interest. I'm a Vietnam veteran and a senior citizen. I have never been hunting in my life and I most likely won't start now. But I love firearms, and I take the defense of myself and my family and the Constitution seriously.

None of that requires a hunting license.

Quite a narrow view you have

So here's my question, because it's one that I think is worth discussing. How do we reach that culture? A kid walks in a gunshop and wants to see Gun X because he used it in a video game, how do we react? How do we get a generation that does all its research online to find quality information about guns and gear? And most importantly, how do we take a kid that plays Call of Duty (it was Counterstrike when I was that age, oh how the times have changed) and convert them into a lifelong shooter?

That's where MY comments came from

"The 2nd Amendment was never about hunting."

Nor was it about you defending yourself from robbers in the wally world parking lot.........so what?

Making people life-long shooters means having a broad perspective and appreciation for ALL of the aspects of shooting, even if you do not currently participate

 

[NRAhab]

Fair enough, but being one of those short attention span kids myself (HEY LOOK A SHINY THING) it comes across a lot of the time with a sort of "those durn whippersnappers with their XCubes and whatnot". While it may not be intended that way here on TFL, it often comes across in gun shops and other meatspace venues.

 

[oneounceload]

Stereotypes come from actual observations - whether or not totally justified - it IS based on reality........if young kids have the attention span of a gnat, whether from video games or whatnot, the reality is what it is

 

[NRAhab]

But that goes both directions, and it's not helpful for either side. If a young kid has a mental image of gunshop employees as being "surly old-dudes that don't like me" what's his motivation to go shooting or something? Wouldn't it be better if when we meet younger kids looking for information on their favorite game guns that we treated their inquiries with respect and the goal of converting them to a long time shooter?

 

[MLeake]

My limited experience...

... dealing with current teenagers and guns.

My godson loves XBox Online and is a complete Halo junkie. Although he also likes COD, etc.

One would think he'd like to try out some actual firearms.

Brought an AR, an M1 Garand, a scoped 700, a 1911, a Model 18 .22, and a .44 Mag to his family's house. His dad and I were going shooting.

My godson had no interest, since he'd have to stop playing XBox.

Note: He'll only go out with us on his dad's cabin cruiser if we let him bring his XBox....

My younger cousin wanted to learn to shoot, and picked up both pistol and rifle shooting pretty quickly. Ultimately, he wanted to go deer hunting, but when it actually came time to go, he didn't like hiking in and carrying a 336, and he was thoroughly discouraged when we didn't see hogs or deer on day 1.

On Day 2, he decided the weather was iffy, and he'd rather play video games.

He still likes to shoot, but he doesn't like the physical effort or boredom involved with hunting.

Neither boy is too keen on cracking books; both do well in school, so they can read and comprehend just fine, but reading for enjoyment is an alien concept to them.

I'm not sure how to change that, across the board.

 

[jimbob86]

My solution.....

..... is a cliche', but an apt one:

"Take your kids hunting, so you don't have to go hunting for your kids."

If your kids have the attention span of a gnat, then blame the parents. Yeah, the guy/gal in the mirror. Fix that while you can. Idiot boxes are evil.

If your kids are grown, and you have no grandkids to take fishing or hunting, volunteer to be a mentor, or teach hunter safety. Don't like kids? There are disabled folks who need someone to take them out hunting....... your fish and game/wildlife/forestry/game and parks/whatever your state calls it's game wardens will help you out .... but you have to put in the time.

YOU. That is the solution.

 

[raimius]

Every shooter has certain tastes. Olympic target shooting requires amazing skills, but it does not interest me personally. I much prefer IPSC/IDPA/3-gun type games. If your goal is to get lifelong shooters, you'll need to find what they want to spend a significant portion of their life shooting.