Grip angle wrong, don't like the feel?

[Sevens]

I think I'm fortunate and I wonder if anyone looks at it the same way?

I see a lot of posts where folks just don't like the feel or grip or grip angle of a particular handgun. I hear this a lot with regards to Glock, the Ruger Mark II/III, etc etc. Most everyone likes a 1911.

In my experience, some feel better than others but the grip feel or angle or natural pointing abilities just wouldn't ever affect my decision to own or purchase any handgun. In everything I've shot over the last 20+ years of handgun shooting, it still feels like a handgun to me when I put it in my hand.

Each piece feels a little different than the last one or the next one... two guns of the same style or even same model with different grips have a different feel, but I guess my hand and style adapts better than some folks, or I'm less picky?

With a 1911, there's a big choice between arched or flat mainspring housing. Mine has a flat one, and GOD does it feel right. I would always choose a flat and I might even go as far as to change an arched to a flat if I bought one. BUT an arched doesn't feel all that wrong. Not like if I shot it poorly I would even consider blaming it on the mainspring housing.

It's great that we have options with grips and swappable panels and whatnot. When I bought my S&W 686 back in '89, I went out and purchased the Pachmayr grips before the revolver even came in-- to this day, the OEM stocks have never seen live fire. But my model 17 has the same OEM grips and I think they work well and allow me to shoot very well. Those grips are so different that it's like night and day.

But I can't imagine not buying a particular handgun because the grip didn't feel "right." I've never met a handgun that I didn't want to know better, and adapt to.

 

[Bitmap]

I tend to agree with you on this. The only time I disagree is if a particular handgun forces me to bend my wrist at a certain angle to get the sights to align on target. Some aftermarket grips for revolvers do that to me. The solution is to change the grips.

I guess I'm one of those few people that like Glocks and 1911s.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

I've shot plenty of handguns and "grip angle" never occurred to me until I joined this forum. They all seemed just fine. Semi's, revolvers... never mattered at all. Point, aim, BOOM! Hit or miss, always seemed more my doing than some magic angle on the gun.

 

[Wuchak]

I learned that I personally cannot evaluate the grip angle of a gun without shooting it.

Whenever I picked up a Glock 19 it just didn't feel right in my hand. Something slightly off about the grip. Then I rented one and that odd angle helped with recoil, follow-up shots, and I was astounded by the accuracy I was getting never having fired one before. It didn't feel good just holding it but it sure did shooting it.

I always liked the feel of the Ruger MKIII's. That Luger grip angle seemed to settle into my hand and was oh so comfortable. Then I bought one of the standard models and unless I have it in a rest I cannot get a group that doesn't resemble a shotgun blast. The MKIII has been nothing but a source of frustration.

These two experiences have taught me that it's all in how the grip contributes to accurate shooting, not how if feels holding it in the store.

I am dissatisfied with the MKIII enough that it will probably end up getting sold to fund the purchase of a 22/45 or Model 41.

ETA: I have a Sigma that has the 1911 grip angle and that is comfortable and I shoot it well. I tend to shoot revolvers better than semi-autos. I also greatly prefer to shoot revolvers so that may have something to do with it. They just seem to fit my hand and point better for me.

 

[Sevens]

You know, it's more those two guns that anything that made me start the thread. I hear more problems with folks who don't like a Glock and Mark II/III because of the "wierd grip angle" not feeling right, and since I own one of each, it seemed to occur to me that I've never met a handgun I didn't like.

Sure, there are some I like more than others, but I really do feel fortunate in that it's easier for me to adapt to a handgun than to try and adapt a handgun to me.

You know what REALLY feels right in my shooting hand?
A handgun! Nothing feels quite as normal and correct in my hand as does a handgun.

 

[MrBorland]

Sure, there are some I like more than others, but I really do feel fortunate in that it's easier for me to adapt to a handgun than to try and adapt a handgun to me.

I suspect it's because your fundamentals are sound.

Seems to me that switching between platforms can be difficult for shooters who've developed bad habits and learned to compensate by developing other bad habits. They're generally better with their gun, but much less so when shooting anything else.

Accuracy and comfort aside, I think changing grip angles can affect the speed at which one can get the first shot off, as in combat action type shooting. I'm used to the grip angle of revolvers, so when doing dry fire drills with a 1911, for instance, I'd have to slow down a bit to get that initial sight picture; otherwise, my natural POA would send the shot low.

 

[Keltyke]

If I have to "adapt" to a gun butt, whether it be a pistol or a revolver, then I have to "adapt" a different grip, pointing/aiming technique, shooting technique, and possibly even a different stance. That's an effort. It forces me into an unnatural grip. Fooey on THAT!


I'll stand by what I've said in the past. A gun should fit your hand like you were born with it there. THEN it won't be an adjustment or effort to aim and shoot. It will shoot "naturally".

Yes, I've bought guns for the primary reason they fit my hand perfectly - without any modification. Secondary considerations are, of course, caliber, capacity, reliability, and of course, accuracy (which will be affected by the fit of the gun in my hand).

To paraphrase a lawyer I've heard of: "If it doesn't fit, you must pass by it."

As for the 1911...I'm one of the minority who does NOT like them in any platform: full size, compact, flat, arched, single or double stack. Good guns, but not my cup of tea.

 

[sholling]

If I have to "adapt" to a gun butt, whether it be a pistol or a revolver, then I have to "adapt" a different grip, pointing/aiming technique, shooting technique, and possibly even a different stance. That's an effort. It forces me into an unnatural grip. Fooey on THAT!

I agree completely. The tests for me are a straight wrist to correctly absorb recoil and natural eyes closed awareness of point of aim.

Without the pistol close your eyes and point naturally, and then open your eyes and note the angle of your finger in relation to your fist. Now with the pistol unloaded and in hand close your eyes and extend your trigger finger. No cheating! The angle should be the same as it was when just pointing. When you open your eyes note where your finger is naturally pointing. That is where the barrel should be pointing and if they're the same then that's the correct grip angle for you.

BTW it's very easy to skew the result in favor of your favored pistol's grip angle but you're only hurting yourself.

 

[Magyar]

I've shot plenty of handguns and "grip angle" never occurred to me until I joined this forum. They all seemed just fine. Semi's, revolvers... never mattered at all. Point, aim, BOOM! Hit or miss, always seemed more my doing than some magic angle on the gun.
__________________

That may be true, but the closer the grip angle is to 90 degrees, the more the muzzle will dip. Guns with greater grip angles dip much less and tend to point much more naturally. Many pistoleros love the feel of the P-08 or P-38 because the grip angle is 124 degrees.
If one holds out their shooting hand and gradually closes it; you'll see the natural contour/angle from the forefinger to the pinkie.
Few examples of grip angles: Glock 17: 112 degrees Sig P226: 105 degrees Most Colts are 107 degrees....

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

Few examples of grip angles: Glock 17: 112 degrees Sig P226: 105 degrees Most Colts are 107 degrees....

Are you saying Glocks AREN'T anti-ergonomic? That will draw some wrath!

 

[Playboypenguin]

I am one of those people that feels like there are way too many choices out there to have to settle for anything that does not meet your needs or feel right.

If I like how a gun performs but not how it looks I will usually not buy it because I can find one where I like both the performance AND looks.

If a gun is very reliable but is uncomfortable in my hand I do not buy it because I can always find one that is reliable AND is comfortable in my hand.

This is the beauty of such a wide selection of handguns being available on the market. You seldom have to settle for anything less than what you want.

This is the reason I will not own full size Glocks or M&P's. I do not like the way either feels in my hand and I do not like the way the full sized Glocks look. I do however like the way the baby Glocks look and they fit my hand much better. Therefore I own a couple sub-compact Glocks.

 

[KnightHawk67]

I have found that I can hit my targets better with a 1911 style grip better than anything else. I can observe my target, then close my eyes and bring the weapon up & be right in the center area of target when I open my eyes. It probably will not be bullseye, but darn close. Muscle memory, practice, voodoo, I don't know what it is, but it works.

 

[scorpion_tyr]

For me I think it's more of a mental thing. I don't own any Glocks because of the way they feel in my hand. I don't own a Beretta 92 or 96 for the same reason, but my Taurus PT92 feels just fine

The gun that feels the best in my hand is my FNH FNP-40. I can still shoot those other guns just as well, it's just the comfort level.

I only use the "feel" when I'm trying to decide between two or more firearms that are all pretty much equal. Every time I've looked at Glocks I've found another gun that has all the same features and feels better in my hand.

 

[Keltyke]

For me I think it's more of a mental thing.

That may be it. As I stated, I do NOT like the 1911 platform, it just doesn't fit my hand. However, with my wife's Springfield v10 or my Colt Defender I can shoot quarter size groups all day long. The gun doesn't feel right in my hand, but I'm accurate with it. That's probably due more to the gun than to me.

 

[oldkim]

It's all about choice - FREEDOM

Grip angle and all that has been mentioned above boils down to WHAT YOU like.

May I ask a question?
Which car do you drive? How come?

Don't (almost) all cars have 4 wheels and a steering mechanism? Just because you can drive a car doesn't mean you're driving a Porche or Land Rover or Yugo.

We have choices and lots of choices these days on guns. From grips, to size, to caliber and even to color.

I have to say with all these choices why not find the gun that fits your needs (be it price, grip, caliber or even color).

My walkaway advice for grips: just because it may feel good at the store - the real test comes from shooting a 1000 rounds downrange - okay how about at least 50 rounds.

 

[troy_mclure]

im one of the people that dont like the grip angle on the glock, but what kept me from buying one is the stupid finger grips. i feel like im just holding a wad of uncomfortable plastic.

 

[Stevie-Ray]

With a 1911, there's a big choice between arched or flat mainspring housing. Mine has a flat one, and GOD does it feel right. I would always choose a flat and I might even go as far as to change an arched to a flat if I bought one. BUT an arched doesn't feel all that wrong. Not like if I shot it poorly I would even consider blaming it on the mainspring housing.

I prefer arched, but I have large-ish hands. The arched feels perfect in size with standard or even a touch bigger grip panels. Strange, because I swapped grips for something far larger on my Kimber Ultra CDP, but they wrap around the front. It also makes for a perfect grip, though it has a FLAT MSH. Seems that size matters, for me, whether you pick it up in the front or back. Either way, that 1911 grip is tops for me.

It's great that we have options with grips and swappable panels and whatnot. When I bought my S&W 686 back in '89, I went out and purchased the Pachmayr grips before the revolver even came in-- to this day, the OEM stocks have never seen live fire.

I did that with my Redhawk. Pachmayr Gripper was installed as soon as I got home with it. I never shot it with the lovely, but decidedly small, grip panels, and I've heard many did the same thing.

But I can't imagine not buying a particular handgun because the grip didn't feel "right." I've never met a handgun that I didn't want to know better, and adapt to.

I have done that, as I just couldn't get used to the grip of the Sig P226. I wanted one badly, but never got to try out one with a larger grip. The P220, OTOH, is very good and quite comfortable and I almost bought one of those, though it lost out to a better pointing (for me) HKUSPC.

 

[Boats]

Buy what you want, but if a handgun doesn't feel right, don't buy it.

It is hilarious that certain people buy Glocks and send them off for grip surgery. Buy a better fitting piece in the first place. Plenty of market competitors match its reliability and many beat its generally poor ergonomics. IIRC, the G17 was designed to be used by people (Austrian conscripts) who had very little, or nothing at all, in terms of previous handgun experience. That's not most pistol enthusiasts, but lots of cops. Yippee.

Most who have it like the factory grip of the Ruger GP-100. I hated it, but knew it was a two minute fix requiring only a screwdriver and an alternate grip. However, to buy brand X auto pistoland pay round trip shipping to a chop shop, thereby adding about $100.00 to the price, and blindly hope it comes out to your preferences? That's plain nutty.

No one should have to adapt to a sidearm, and the sidearm shouldn't be ridiculously expensive or time consuming to adapt to yourself.

 

[Sevens]

Well... for the record, I don't mind if anyone has a preference and I'm not saying that the WRONG feel doesn't exist. I'm just saying... in my hand, it feels like it belongs, no matter what it is.

Of all the handguns I own (more than a dozen), the only one that doesn't feel absolutely 100% natural is my .30 Carbine Ruger Blackhawk. It's a normal single action revolver, on the very heavy side (44 ounces) 'cause there's a lot of metal, only a .30 cal hole in the barrel and 6 of them in the cylinder and it's got a long (7 1/2") barrel, but the grip doesn't feel completely natural to me. Anyone who owns or shoots single action revolvers knows that it's different, and to MANY folks, it's even more natural and "perfect" than many other guns.

And even this one feels just fine when I hold it, point it, aim it, shoot it... it doesn't feel as natural as my others, but I just haven't met a handgun that disagrees with my hand.

 

[Shane Tuttle]

I always liked the feel of the Ruger MKIII's. That Luger grip angle seemed to settle into my hand and was oh so comfortable. Then I bought one of the standard models and unless I have it in a rest I cannot get a group that doesn't resemble a shotgun blast. The MKIII has been nothing but a source of frustration.
These two experiences have taught me that it's all in how the grip contributes to accurate shooting, not how if feels holding it in the store.
I am dissatisfied with the MKIII enough that it will probably end up getting sold to fund the purchase of a 22/45 or Model 41.

IIRC, the MkIII has the same angle as the 1911, not Luger.

I agree completely. The tests for me are a straight wrist to correctly absorb recoil and natural eyes closed awareness of point of aim.
Without the pistol close your eyes and point naturally, and then open your eyes and note the angle of your finger in relation to your fist. Now with the pistol unloaded and in hand close your eyes and extend your trigger finger. No cheating! The angle should be the same as it was when just pointing. When you open your eyes note where your finger is naturally pointing. That is where the barrel should be pointing and if they're the same then that's the correct grip angle for you.

I don't see the validity of the "point" test.

1. 99% of the time it's a person trying to "show" you that a Glock is the best fit for you. (I know you're not implying this). It appears to me that unless you have rheumatoid arthritis, your wrist is bent in order for your finger to point at what your aiming. It's a "test" that doesn't provide a measurable result.

2. I don't point to shoot my gun, so this test doesn't do me any favors.

3. Like you, my natural stance results in a straight wrist. Firing guns such as Glocks during long range sessions does not bode well in the comfort department.

4. People can say that firing guns that have different grip angles don't bother them. I'm sure that it doesn't for them. But, that doesn't mean a person's bone/ligament structure is taking abnormal abuse. I turn wrenches for a living. Didn't think just because my wrists are exposed to different angles I was abusing my body. Didn't hurt then. Now I have carpal tunnel in my left wrist due to not practicing ergonomic posture.

Same goes for guns. Why place your body in a position that isn't its most stable position (i.e. bent wrist) for thousands upon thousands of rounds just because someone says you point that way?

Sure, there are some I like more than others, but I really do feel fortunate in that it's easier for me to adapt to a handgun than to try and adapt a handgun to me.

I can adapt from shooting XDs to Glocks in a heartbeat. But, if I had 2 very similar sports cars parked next to each other that basically performs equally however one is much more comfortable to drive, it's a no brainer for me....