Got to examine and fire some new goodies

[stagpanther]

Hunting friend had a good year in business and I happened to find him where I shoot with a couple of new rifles. Last season he was sporting an old wooden browning in 30-06--I was shocked to see he's gone ultra-modern high tech.

I got to examine and fire a Seekins precsion Havak element in 300 win mag SS and a browning x-bolt in 6.8 western. Both rifles feature the latest in high tech digital camo carbon fiber stocks and fluted barrels and bolts. Both are very light weight--the seekins especially so. The seekins had no muzzle device, so as you might expect it's a bit of a bang firing at around 3,000 fps 180 gr bullet, not something I would want to do all day out of a rifle that weighs 6 lbs. A beautiful made gun and shoots well, though I couldn't see me buying one unless I was going to have to do many miles on foot along with very heavy gear or game drag-out. But the x-bolt is what really caught my fancy--or more accurately it's pairing with the 6.8 western, which I really consider to be "270 WSM Improved." Very nice handling and shooting rifle which I would seriously consider if I didn't already have a 270 WSM--and also found a a few thousand dollars in my sock drawer that I had forgotten about.

 

[taylorce1]

6.8 Western is an interesting cartridge, but if I go to a short mag I'm buying a .300 WSM. I love .277 cal cartridges, but I'm thinking the .300 WSM will be slightly more versatile.

 

[stagpanther]

but I'm thinking the .300 WSM will be slightly more versatile

Point well taken. My preference is to go with a bigger magnum if I want a 308 screamer--I really was kinda surprised at how well the 6.8 western shot with factory plain-jane ammo, I think it's going to be popular despite the existence of other 277 cartridges very similar to it ballistically.

 

[taylorce1]

I think the 6.8 Western is a great idea. It forced a twist rate change to the .277 caliber that gives people a factory option to take advantage of the new bullets available. I don't have a custom build in my near future, but I always thought a 8 or 9" twist .270 Win would be a good idea. I've thought this ever since the ABLR bullets came out from Nosler and the .277 needed faster than 1:10 to maximize performance.

 

[ed308]

Stag: What was the recoil like on the 6.8 Western? Similar to .308?

 

[USAF Ret]

Stag: What was the recoil like on the 6.8 Western? Similar to .308?

Looks to be a little more than a 308, but Stag will know in person. Been looking at this cartridge as well. Looks like it is right around a 30-06 for recoil.

Cartridge 6.8 Western
Free Recoil Energy (Ft-lbs) 20.44
Recoil Velocity (FPS) 12.53
Avg Bullet Weight 163
Avg Muzzle Velocity 2,888

Cartridge .308 Win
Free Recoil Energy (Ft-lbs) 18.27
Recoil Velocity (FPS) 11.62
Avg Bullet Weight 202
Avg Muzzle Velocity 2,491

 

[stagpanther]

I shot it from a lead sled rest, so I didn't get a real impression of the felt recoil. I assume the felt recoil freehand would be similar to the 270 WSM which I find to be similar to 308--but a big factor is the lightness of the rifle. I'm not as big on ultralight rifles as others are because I personally find a somewhat heavier rifle helps in felt recoil reduction as well as holding the rifle steadier--but that's just my preference.

 

[44 AMP]

Cartridge .308 Win
Free Recoil Energy (Ft-lbs) 18.27
Recoil Velocity (FPS) 11.62
Avg Bullet Weight 202
Avg Muzzle Velocity 2,491

I won't argue these aren't valid data (though recoil velocity would be dependent on the weight of the rifle)

And while I've stated many times that you can shoot 200gr from a .308 Win, is anyone out there actually doing it? A 200gr bullet at 2500 fps?

Seems like a bit of cherry picking for comparison to me.

 

[USAF Ret]

I won't argue these aren't valid data (though recoil velocity would be dependent on the weight of the rifle)

And while I've stated many times that you can shoot 200gr from a .308 Win, is anyone out there actually doing it? A 200gr bullet at 2500 fps?

Seems like a bit of cherry picking for comparison to me.

Yeah, I agree. Many factors to consider, but I like studying up on all this stuff.

 

[44 AMP]

When the difference in energy is only a handful of ft/lbs stock design, stock fit, and gun weight, along with the shooter are the most important factors in FELT recoil.

A light gun, with poor stock fit to the shooter, especially with a lot of drop, will beat the snot out of you even with a relatively mild recoiling cartridge.

On the other hand, I once knew a guy who thought the .458 Win mag was a *****cat for recoil. In HIS rifle.

A custom made 17lb bench rest gun....

 

[USAF Ret]

When the difference in energy is only a handful of ft/lbs stock design, stock fit, and gun weight, along with the shooter are the most important factors in FELT recoil.

A light gun, with poor stock fit to the shooter, especially with a lot of drop, will beat the snot out of you even with a relatively mild recoiling cartridge.

On the other hand, I once knew a guy who thought the .458 Win mag was a *****cat for recoil. In HIS rifle.

A custom made 17lb bench rest gun....

I was watching a guy shoot one of the Weatherby Vanguard MeatEater rifles in 300 Win Mag last night. I watched the recoil on it and just from looking at it, it seemed mild. He commented on the fact it felt like shooting a 308. It did have a muzzle brake. The guy filming shot it and said he has shot 243 rifles that felt like they kick more.

As a smaller stature shooter, I can definitely say I stay away from long LOP rifles. I have to contort to get a firm squeeze on the trigger and it hurts. I like the fact than many rifles now come with both an adjustable LOP and comb. I have a Magpul stock on a rifle that I fitted and that thing feels like an extension of your body.

 

[Bart B.]

Some competitors have shot 250 grain Sierra HPMK bullets in 1:8 twist 308 Winchester barrels leaving around 2150 fps. Sub MOA accuracy at a thousand yards.

 

[stagpanther]

Some competitors have shot 250 grain Sierra HPMK bullets in 1:8 twist 308 Winchester barrels leaving around 2150 fps. Sub MOA accuracy at a thousand yards.

I believe it--225 gr is a sweet spot for 338 fed and 358 win loads I do.

 

[jackstrawIII]

6.8 Western is an interesting cartridge, but if I go to a short mag I'm buying a .300 WSM. I love .277 cal cartridges, but I'm thinking the .300 WSM will be slightly more versatile.

I pretty much agree with this. Love the idea of a 6.8 Western, but likely won't every own one. I have a 6.5 PRC that would work for any of the midsized game... and if I ever needed more I'd be jumping to the 300WSM.

 

[Scorch]

It looks to me like 6.8 Westerner is basically the same performance as a 270 Winchester. If it can't do it better (faster, cheaper), then what is the improvement? The ability to shoot heavier bullets? Most people shoot 130s out of their 270s, and the 1:9 twist most 270s come with will stabilize just about anything up to 190 grains, it's basically a 7mm and that is the twist 7mms come with. "It's different" has seldom made anything a winner, you have to be better in some way. Like I said above, is it faster or better? If the bullet manufacturers are making high BC low drag profile bullets, the 270 can use them just as easy as a 6.8 Westerner or a 270 WSM can.

 

[stagpanther]

I have three 270 wins and a 270 wsm; I'd still think about the 6.8 western. If it is an unnecessary redundancy, it will likely disappear fast. Those little voices inside my head tell me it won't.