Good idea, bad, or just fun?

[taylorce1]

So I was looking at some rifle barrels for Encore rifles and I came across some SSK barrels. I was kind of on the lookout for a .375 JDJ or .30-30 Win barrel as those are two I regret trading off. Anyway they had a 16" threaded .30 Carbine barrel with 1:7 twist.

Now I think this would be really fun to shoot suppressed with 110 grain bullets. Also it might be fun to use some 150 or 170 grain .30-30 bullets as subsonics. Anyway I'm just thinking out loud on this one.

 

[44 AMP]

Ok, here's some points to consider,

Taking a supersonic round (which the .30 carbine is) down below the speed of sound, and doing it from a 16" barrel is tricksy. And isn't going to be done with the usual powders (DO NOT TRY IT with slow powders!)

Next point, besides being about half again heavier, .30-30 bullets are much longer than carbine bullets, so you're going to have to really watch (and figure out) how deep in the case you will need to seat them to keep them off the rifling. Carbine barrels are not noted for having "long" throats.

So the base of the bullet is going to be a lot deeper in the case, meaning you will need to determine a suitable powder that will provide safe pressure in the now seriously reduced powder space. Again, I doubt the powders usually used in the carbine round will safely do that.

In the single shot, you don't have to worry about crimp or cycling the action, so you have some leeway, but you are completely off the map (there is no data for what you want to do), and there be dragons here!!
Mostly they are sleeping, and if you're careful, and thought full you should be able to find a way through without waking them up.

But if you step on one's toes or tail, it will wake up, and not be happy, and odds are high you'll be toast!

Good luck and tread warily. and, Bilbo if there is, in fact, a live dragon down there, try not to waken it!

 

[taylorce1]

This is why we ask questions! There are some unknowns for sure. The main is it a SAAMI spec throat, or something else. I have data up to 130 grains, it was developed for Ruger Blackhawk pistols. I also have access to QL that'll help me extrapolate out a safe starting load.

I'm sure there will be pistol powders, maybe Trail Boss will get me subsonic speeds with a 150 grain FN. There is only around .244-.250 difference between a 110 grain FMJ and 150 grain FN bullet, but I also realize a 1.290" case can't loose too much capacity and nearly a 1/4" could be a big deal. Obviously the weak link will be the brass, the Encore won't have any issues handling any pressures the .30 Carbine can produce.

I do thank you for the warnings.

 

[44 AMP]

Does Trail Boss ever produce supersonic loads??

You need to make up a test dummy. Take a case that fits your chamber and then "almost" size it. What you want is the case mouth just holding the bullet firmly enough it won't move on its own but you can easily push it in.

Insert one of the 150/170 bullets you want to use, into the case and leave it "long" so it will hit the rifling. Insert it into the chamber so the rifling "seats" the bullet. Carefully remove, so the bullet doesn't move and change the COAL.

Measure and that's your MAX COAL for that bullet.

Since I don't like to have to develop special loads for shooting bullets jammed into the rifling, I would set my max length a few thousandths shorter.

THis method will also give you a visual showing how deep into the powder space the base of that 150 is going to go. Remember its not the 1/4" (or whatever) difference in depth that matters most, its the percentage of change to the available volume of the case. The base of the heavy bullet may only be 1/4" deeper, but how much does that reduce powder space? 5%?? 10%? 15%?? might be a good thing to know when estimating things

Also worth knowing is if your computer program can take that change into account and factor it in, or NOT. You do want to avoid a situation where Quackload says its safe but the gun goes kaboom because there is a variable the program didn't, or couldn't calculate...

 

[ballardw]

Might look, with all the cautions that 44AMP mentions, at different .30 bullets. Many designed for .30-30 have a blunt profile for use in tube magazines. Spitzer point bullets may have enough of the weight towards the tip to not engage rifling too early and allow seating a bit further out than the .30-30 bullets. If you have a typical 147gr ball .308 bullet you might hold it next to that .30-30 150gr and see.

 

[Jim Watson]

Uh, ask SSK?

Or look for information on the Mini Whisper (7.63 Mauser with rifle bullets) and Micro Whisper (7.65 Luger with rifle bullets). That might give you a case volume to compare with.

P.S. The proof load for a .30 carbine was the 150 grain .30-06 bullet and the regular carbine powder charge as for the 110 gr service load.

 

[taylorce1]

Assuming SSK used a standard SAAMI chamber, there isn't much room if I'm reading the print right. Just .155" of throat, so even a spitzer bullet will have to be seated extremely deep. I'm looking at Sierra and a 110 grain FMJ bullet is .663, a 150 grain FMJ BT is over an 80% length increase. A flat bas Pro Hunter 150 grain is 1.065" just over 60% longer.

I understand what youre saying about the Ogive, and the bullet nose being further up the bore. I just don't think there's really enough room to play with, unless I throat the barrel differently. The barrel is roughly $550, any changes to throating or a rechamber will put me over the $700 price tag quickly.

If I do rechamber, I'd have been better off just buying a barrel in what I originally wanted .30-30 Win or .375 JDJ.

 

[taylorce1]

Uh, ask SSK?

I have an email out to the seller, which isn't SSK. They haven't replied yet to tell me if the chamber is different than SAAMI. I don't claim to be a .30 Carbine expert but all SAAMI testing was done with the 110, I wouldn't know how it was originally proofed for the Military.

When I'm not 100% on something, I'm going to try and default to the safest option. Which will be sticking to known data and shooting 110 grain bullets. If that's the case then I'll look for a different barrel.

 

[oughtsix]

30 carbine is not really a great round. M1 Carbines are really cool rifles and they just happen to shoot .30 carbine.

The only reason 30 carbine ammo is still around is because of the beautiful M1 carbines. I don't see much use for the round in any other firearm. With out the M1 carbines the 30 carbine round would be just another .276 Pederson.

 

[44 AMP]

P.S. The proof load for a .30 carbine was the 150 grain .30-06 bullet and the regular carbine powder charge as for the 110 gr service load.

My reference says the high pressure test cartridge for the .30carbine used a 152gr (+/-) bullet and 14gr of powder, pressure 47,500psi +/- 2500psi

same powder used in ball ammo, 13gr. avg pressure 40,000psi

pressure test load identified by a "stannic stained case".

 

[taylorce1]

30 carbine is not really a great round. M1 Carbines are really cool rifles and they just happen to shoot .30 carbine.

I just happen to own a (cough, cough) Universal .30 Carbine. I'm familiar with the cartridge, and shooting that carbine is pure fun. I'm not so enamored with it, that this barrel is a must have.

 

[44 AMP]

I don't think having a barrel for your single shot Encore or Contender in a cartridge you already have in another gun is in any way a bad thing.

That's what I did when the Contender bug bit me. Which is how I wound up with Contender barrels in .222 .30-30 and .45-70 and one in 9mm Luger!

At the very least, having a barrel for your single shot means that if something happens to your other gun, you've still got something that can use the ammo!

And, they're fun!

I'd say, getting the barrel would be a good thing, but not a "must have" thing.

Shooting 150gr .30-30 bullets from .30 carbine brass? Not so sure its a good thing. Possible, done CAREFULLY, but really, why bother???

(yes, "because I can" is as valid as "because its there". Though personally, I'm too old and lazy to climb mountains I can drive around....)

 

[taylorce1]

Moot point the barrel has sold, they have a 10" barrel but I'm not interested in an Encore pistol.