Glock owners: getting rid of 6 o clock hold?

[dyl]

Hey all, some questions about my used Glock 22. The previous owner put Mepro light sights on it (dont know what height).I took it out for a spin and it shoots about 1.5 - 2 inches high at 7 yards and about 3-4 inches at 15 yards.

1) is it true that standard Glock sights come with a 6 'o clock hold sight picture?

2) if this is true and I order a new front sight of standard height (whatever that height is) does that mean it will remain a 6:00 hold even with aftermarket sights?

3) what sight heights do I need to get rid of the 6:00 hold? I want to bisect my target just like with my revolvers as far as sight picture goes.

Also, any suggestions about specific sights heights or widths for the Glock? I haven't measure the post or notch but it feels like there isn't enough air space between front sight and the edges of the rear. These are meprolight tru-dots.

I appreciate your input.

 

[labhound]

My Gen 3 Glock 19 sights are definitely a 6 o'clock hold. Sorry but I can't help you with replacement sights.

 

[1911Alaska]

Can someone explain to me what you guys mean about the sights being at a 6 o'clock hold?
Thanks

 

[thedudeabides]

POA/POI means that you will hit what you cover with the front sight.

6 o clock means the front sight is like the lowercase letter "i," the gun will hit where the dot on the "i" is when the sights are lined up. The advantage of this is that you don't cover your target with the sights.

Bead sights on shotguns work on this principle, for example.

 

[AK103K]

All my Glocks have either factory or Meprolight three dot night sights on them, and they all shoot to the center "dot", not the top of the blade.

If you use a traditional sight picture and a 6 o'clock hold, they all consistently shoot low.

 

[kcub]

I always preferred the standard dot and U Glock sight.

I am not a fan of 3 dot sights, they slow me down because I have to consider that the 3 dots are in the correct order. I am baffled as to why the sucky 3 dot is so ubiquitous.

 

[Brit]

Six o'clock hold is the bulls eye target shooting hold, it allows you to hold the sights (black) on the white part of the traditional target, makes it easy to see the sights, the high scoring zones numbers 8 to 10, sit on top of the front sight.

Fiber optic night sights, as in my favorites, TruGlo, have three light gathering tubes, very bright in sun light, not quite as bright at night, but quite bright.

The aim point with three green dots, is right in the middle of what you want to hit. Very quick to see, and aim, you place the line of green dots on your target, in a straight line, the front sight in the middle. Quick and easy.

Picking up a pistol from a bed side table in the dark, you are more or less guessing where you are pointing your gun. With standard (traditional) sights.

 

[AK103K]

Ive been shooting the three dots since before they were lit, and actually see the dots before I see a traditional sight picture. I actually have to shift focus to get one.

I always found them to be very simple and intuitive. You just pick up the front dot as the gun comes up, put it on the target, and the two rear dots are just slightly lower as the gun is coming up (giving the impression of a shallow triangle and helping in indexing the gun) and rock into a nice even line as the gun comes into presentation. The bullet goes to where the center dot sits. You get instant horizontal and vertical alignment without having to think about it.

Ive tried the dot over dot, and dot over bar, and found them to be much slower, as my brain tends to slow down as it tries to adjust/fine tune "the gap" looking for vertical alignment, instead of just shooting.

 

[kcub]

What kind of rear sight does a shotgun have?
Exactly. Keep it simple and don't use anything that makes you think or slows you down.

If you just throw your gun up and orient the sights on the target here is the fastest in low light conditions in descending order:

1. no night sights, just a naturally great pointing handgun, focus on the target
2. laser
3. big dot express/shallow V glow in the dark
4. front sight only glow in the dark
5. 2 dot or dot bar glow in the dark
6. 3 dot glow in the dark

Of course, this is just my opinion and opinions differ.

 

[Hawkeye146]

just focus on front sight and everything naturally aligns.

 

[Brit]

AK103K

To tell some one they are wrong! Especially in utilizing ways to keep us alive, has never been my intent.

But not passing on something we have learned, taught, and tested, is being remiss in my view.

This is not new, not sure who invented it. But I taught it to LEO Firearms Instructors, for twenty years. As a board member of IALEFI.

Started out calling it the SAS Canada PUNCH DRAW. The name of my first training Company, forgot to renew the license! Lost the name.

So it became simply the Punch Draw.

The mechanics are simple, moving a holstered pistol, from the belt, to the point that it is fired, at the threat, in the shortest possible distance, and time.

Note, you are not lifting the sights up to the target, as you would, as you described, if the pistol is already in your hands.

Drop gun hand to pistol, establish first and final grip, lift pistol from holster, as it clears the holster, with the nose of the barrel, lift the pistol with your wrist, to be aligned with your forearm, now direct the pistol at the target, like it was a punch, the strong hand meets the support hand, level with the upper chest, three things happen now together, your eyes see the sights, the hands stop forward movement, the trigger is pressed! A PUNCH! The first shot goes off. That is what you did, there is nothing faster.

I always found them to be very simple and intuitive. You just pick up the front dot as the gun comes up, put it on the target, and the two rear dots are just slightly lower as the gun is coming up (giving the impression of a shallow triangle and helping in indexing the gun) and rock into a nice even line as the gun comes into presentation. The bullet goes to where the center dot sits. You get instant horizontal and vertical alignment without having to think about it.

 

[mongo356]

OP to answer your question to the best of my ability-

Here is a list of sight heights that I collected over my many Glock sight installs with my digital calipers. I measured the rear notch width and the height (Tall) portion of the sight. Your measurements may vary a little bit but this is the best way I could come up with to get what I wanted (other than adj. sights)

GLOCK Stock Polymer Sights (all have a .140 wide rear notch)
+2 7.3mm/0.290 Tall
+1 6.9mm/0.270
0 6.5mm/0.256
-1 6.1mm/0.240
Screw-on front---.160 Tall- .145 Wide
Each size change represents a 3” change in bullet impact at 25 yards

Meprolight
.140 -Rear Notch
.160 -Front Width

TruGlo Tritium&FO #131GT1
.150 Rear Notch- .210 Tall
.135 Front Width - .190 Tall

Ameriglo
.150 -Rear Notch
.125 -Front Width (T- thin blade) .165 Tall
.140 -Front Width .165 Tall

Trijicon
.150 -Rear Notch .250 Tall GLO 1 (9mm/40)
.150 -Rear Notch .265 Tall GLO 4 (45/10mm)
.140 -Front Width .145 Tall

The only reliable way I have found to get the POA/POI the exact way you want it is to first get the right POA/POI with the polymer sights(they are the cheapest $) then I take a calipers and measure the front and rear sight and try to keep the same ratio front to rear with the new sights that I order for carry.

Hope this helps
Best of luck
Mongo

 

[JohnKSa]

They are set up for 6 O' Clock hold, but not at the distances you're talking about.

At 15 yards, the bullet should be maybe 1.5" above the sights and at 25 yards, about 2.5" above the sights.

When the night sights were installed, the installer didn't match the sights up properly to the ones on the gun. You need a shorter rear sight.

If meprolights use Glocks standard sight height markings, you can look at the right side of the rear sight. There should be a line or some lines that match one of the line sets in the picture below.

That plus the information in mongo356's post should get you on target.

 

[Mrgunsngear]

All my Glocks have either factory or Meprolight three dot night sights on them, and they all shoot to the center "dot", not the top of the blade.

If you use a traditional sight picture and a 6 o'clock hold, they all consistently shoot low.

+1

 

[dyl]

Thanks for your input folks.

Mongo, that chart of yours must have took substantial effort. Thanks. Under the Polymer sight section does the first number mean front sight height in mm and the second in inches? And all references to rear sights are about width of the notch I assume?

I'll take some calipers to them and let you all know what I find.
It's just frustrating. The range just hung steel plates at 50 yards and I can ring the silhouette... If I hold on the bottom edge of the torso. And forget the little round steel plates. Ammo is too expensive to miss this much.

On a tangent, I'm glad the pistol can group consistently. Best 5 shot group at 7 yards was about .75 inches tall and 1 inch wide, all holes touching. With unique powder and a 165 grain FMJ (gasp!)

 

[mongo356]

Under the Polymer sight section does the first number mean front sight height in mm and the second in inches?

Yep that is correct the chart is home made, like you it was frustrating to try and find all the right sight info that was in the same format, so as I installed various sights I measured them first.

And all references to rear sights are about width of the notch I assume?

Correct- sometimes I forgot to measure until after they were already installed, so I could only get an accurate reading on the notch width.

This is my opinion only not gospel, but at one time I thought the thin blade front of the Ameriglo .125" were the best target/night sight setup. As my experiences grew a little and mainly because my local gun shop started to carry Trijicon (I tend to try and support the local shop) so I like the .140 front of the Trijicon now just as well. Both Trijicon & Ameriglo make some dandy sights I wouldn't be afraid to use either brand. Everyone's eyes tend to vary a little YMMV.

 

[okiewita40]

I was trained the same way that Brit describes. Was that way in the military and at the police academy. And it is fast. My dept has a stage in qualifying where we have to draw and fire 6 shots in two seconds. You will be suprised at how long it seems you have left over once you get used to the punch draw.

 

[Mystro]

My G20 is sight pic 3 with meprolights. I prefer sight pic 2. I like to see what I am hitting, especially head shots at 20 yards.


This chart may help give you a reference.

 

[pete2]

Focus on the front sight, I actually prefer the gun shoot a little high, 6o'clock hold for me. I also find I like plain black sights for most purposes altho a bright front sight can be faster in non precision shooting. The bright front sight will interfere with getting a good sight picture.

 

[dyl]

Finally measured.

Okay, sitting with the calipers in front of me.

Front sight: height ~ 0.170 inches, width: 0.160 inches

Rear sight: height from surface of slide is 0.2 inches = 5.08 mm according to my converter app, height from base of dovetail is ~ 0.258 inches = 6.55 mm.
Notch width 0.135 closest to the shooter.

The rear sight has the single dash on the left side
The dash is a horizontal line on the left slope of the sight and is not a scratch. It protrudes up from the slide a little (likely stamped) and the finish is intact. Rear sight height coincides with convention of 6.5mm

Conclusions:

My rear sight seems to be the standard 6.5mm height.
The Ameriglo website says the standard Glock front sight height is 0.165 " inches which is close to my 0.170" measurement. So I can't blame it on the front sight (which would actually help me shoot lower). How about the rear sight? I'm assuming the 6.5mm is the standard so if that is true I cannot blame it on the sight. It could be my vision. Something about my vision may be causing me to hold my sight picture higher. I actually have noticed that for both handgun and rifle the target image seems to move up as i establish sight picture. Almost like a mirage. My shooting is done under a roof while the target is outdoors with no direct sunlight on me.

What to do?: I measured my targets with the caliper. My best group at 7 yards is actually 0.6 inches high off above the bullseye if I measure to the center of the group (5 shot group that is a hole 1/2 inch wide by .3 inches center to center) According the Ameriglo calculator it would take a rear sight 0.015 " = 0.4mm shorter to make that a bullseye. Guess what? The lowest height Glock sight is 0.4mm shorter.

So I could do that and chalk the rest up to my by eyesight. Probably need new glasses but they just seem to get heavier over the years. Doesn't everything?

My final dilemma is whether or not I really want to purchase new night sights for this "old" 1990's Glock 22. I might want to sell towards a new one. And a new rear night sight alone would certainly look funny.

Anyhow thank you all for your help making sense of this.