Glock KaBoom!!

[TaxPhd]

After reading about Glock KB's, I actually had one (actually, it happened to my wife, which is unfortunate, as she is just starting to shoot).

The Scenario: Glock 19 (not a .40 as is more common). Clean gun. Reloads, using 115 grn. jacketed (not cast) bullet, and a below max charge of 231.

The KB: Shot sounded normal, magazine was ejected from the gun. My first thought was that my wife had inadvertantly depressed the mag release. She said "That hurt, and I think that I'm done shooting now," but she didn't cry out or anything. Her hands had several burn marks where hot gas escaped between the frame and slide.

The damage: Minor burns to my wife's hands, and she is O.K. now. The little "foot" at the front of the magazine follower was broken off. The frame has a 1/2 inch crack on the right side.

The analysis: Bad brass. The KB blew a 1/4 inch (approx.) hole through the brass at the rear, where the brass is unsupported. Glocks have the ability to fire while slightly out of battery, but this was not the case. Post-mortem on the case (chamber markings) show that the case was fully seated.

While a bad reload is a possibility, it isn't likely. The brass was Eastern European military, obtained while an R.O. at a GSSF match.

The Bottom Line: Be careful out there! ALWAYS wear eye protection! (my wife was, fortunately). A high level of experience in reloading, coupled with very careful brass processing procedures will not guarantee that you will have no problems. It is possible for a weak piece of brass to get through, unnoticed.

Could this have happened in a gun with a fully supported chamber? Maybe, maybe not. Who knows? Just remember, that doing everything right may not always be enough.

 

[Covert Mission]

Very interesting. Clearly, you are an experienced shooter, reloader, RO, etc. (I don't reload yet).

Thanks for the advice. Interesting that with all the talk/worry about .40 KB's, here we have one in 9mm. I would LOVE to know the ratio of KB's with reloads vs factory loads. My gut tells me it is almost always reloads. This doesn't discourage me from wanting to shoot reloads, but I will surely get an different barrel in advance. And take some detailed relaod lessons, or get them from a trusted source.

Someone on another thread made an interesting abservation: Glock has weathered a lot of criticism from fans of other guns, regarding their unsupported chambers. The 1911 has had unsupported chamber for many years, as I understand, and no one whines about that. Occasional KB's with hot loads (although the lower pressure of .45 undoubtedly offers a margin of safety).

PS: I'm glad your wife is OK. I hope it doesn't discourage her from shooting.

[This message has been edited by Covert Mission (edited July 22, 1999).]

 

[thaddeus]

My reading on the subject has shown me (as stated above) that it is most often the .40 cal's that kB. It can happen with factory ammo, and has happened with factory ammo in clean guns. Often though, as we all know, it is a less-than-clean .40 cal gun with reloads. .40 loads are all loaded "+p" and to the highest pressure, so if one thing goes wrong...kB!

In fairness to Glocks, they are a VERY popular gun these days and there are many out there. The more we see out there being used, the more occasional problems are going to pop up.

 

[JMB]

Stop using reloads in your Glocks! I would estimate that nearly 90% of all ka-booms are with reloads rather than factory ammo.

 

[Cheapo]

That's little comfort if you suspect that 90 percent of the ammo shot in Glocks is reloads.

kB!s per 100,000 rounds of ammo fired would be the only reasonable comparison of factory-new vs. reloaded ammo kB!s.

What if all these Glock kB! victims are like me and shoot 95+ percent reloads?

 

[David Schmidbauer]

I mailed this thread off late last evening when I read it... here is the reply.
---------------------------------------------

Thanks... I don't have posting privileges there, but you might point out that anyone who reloads any ol' brass he scrounges off the floor of a GSSF match gets what he deserves.

And, not for nuthin', but the proper form is _kB!_. I know... I coined it.

- Dean





------------------
Schmit, GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"



[This message has been edited by David Schmidbauer (edited July 23, 1999).]

 

[BrokenArrow]

Yep!

kBs can happen to anyone, anytime, anywhere in any gun and any caliber.

It IS more likely in some guns/calibers than others, especially with reloaded ammo.

Figure out your comfort level, risk to benfit ratio, and blast away!

------------------
>>>>---->

 

[Joe the Redneck]

As a Glock user Iwould like to point out that events such as the one described have noting to do with the weapon. It is the fault of the ammo.

Many people have it in for Glocks and never trusted the poly frame. So, when these events happen, they act as it the person had been shooting "Ol' Slabsides" it wouldn't have happned. If you shoot reloads, you are leaving yourself open to problems you won't have with factory loads. If something was inherently wrong with the Glock's design thare would have been lawsuits galore.

Where are the pictures? Where are the chemists reports? Where are the reports showing that Glock uses poor quality steel in their barrels?

Stuff happens. Golck tells you to use ONLY new manufactured jacketed bullets. If you don't follow those instruction, you are taking a risk.

Stop all the Glock bashing, please. If you don't like them, don't buy them.

 

[David Schmidbauer]

>I would like to point out that events such as the one described have noting to do with the weapon. <

Oh REALLY? Is that why Glock recall.... oppps... "UPGRADED" their line?


> If you don't like them, don't buy them.

I don't and I don't.

Now I've got nothing against people that like Glocks, I even call some of them Friend. I am posting the above, not in an attempt to get your goat, only to make a point.



------------------
Schmit, GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"

 

[Grayfox]

I'm with Gunny on this one. I won't buy a Glock either. Not that I have anything against Glock owners, but I have noticed several threads in these forums on Glock KBs and not many or any as I recall on KBs with other guns.
I personally witnessed a KB in a 9mm Glock with factory ammo. It appeared that the slide unlocked before the pressure peaked. Blew out the case and cut up the shooters face with shrapnel. Good thing he was wearing glasses.Gun was severly damaged.

If you like Glocks, more power to ya. I won't try to stop you from buying or using them.
For myself, I don't trust 'em and won't buy one.

 

[owl]

Years ago Glock found favor with the law enforcement community, for several reasons. mostly the price for new glocks and the amount they could get for the Smith revolvers they had to sell. Got them to what they thought at the time was a high tech auto pistol at a real good price. The years since then has not been as good to Glock. Most ploice departments, that have a adequate budget have replaced the glocks with other makes. There is no shortage of Police tradein Glocks on the market.

 

[B Shipley]

How many people kB! w/ 1911s? Lots! Why? Unsupported barrels. Same for Glocks. Don't push it and it won't bite back. It seems to happen mostly w/ .40, and of those, w/ 180gr. bullets.



The 1911 is a 90+ year old design and most shooters love them, but dislike to loathe Glocks for the same flaw. But, J.M. Browning found that the things feed better with unsupported barrels, due to the more gentle angle of the ramp that can be produced this way. This is what everyone wants when it counts: a reliable gun. I'll leave those who toy with their loads to the consequences, esp. if they're already aware of the shortcomings of the design.

 

[ArizonaMorgan]

Actually owl, the reason I've seen that the market is flooded with police trade in Glocks is that most of them are "upgrading" from 9mm to .40S&W.

 

[Dan]

I've got to get my not so humble opinion in on this.

In the 8 yrs I have with shooting Glocks, I've sent 24,000+ rounds downrange with 5 differing Glocks. You know how many K.B.s I've had? ZERO!

If you ask how many malfunctions I've had, I'll say the same thing, ZERO!

Now, in the 15 years I've been into handguns (yes I know somebody gonna point out they've been into handguns since I was in diapers), I have been a member of 2 different gun clubs, 4 different indoor ranges, been a regular customer of an additional 5 different indoor ranges and have frequented an unknown amount of gunshops.

I'm not claiming to be an expert by any means. But I've never heard or seen of first hand a Glock K.B. I have however, witnessed a Sig p-229 K.B. (or case failure, since only Glocks K.B. - feel the sarcasm), witnessed a 1911 self detonate, in which the shooter was injured pretty badly (he needed surgery to repair his shootin' hand) and arrived at the range moments after a H.K. USP K.B.'d (I don't know the caliber for sure, but I think it was a .40 S&W).

No Glocks though. In fact I've never heard it was such a problem until I got involved in the discussion boards on the net. That leads me to believe that mostly gossip and heresay rule this domain. That and the fact that gun people are staunch traditionalists. You know,if it ain't a (fill in your favorite gun) it ain't ****. And how could a plastic gun be worth anything. Then throw in a good "my son's friends cousin has a Glock, and it just blew up on him" story, and that just validates all the traditionalists anti Glock feelings. Well they got to have something to hang on to...

Now, let's look at it this way, if it was a legitimate concern, don't you think it would be plastered all over every gun magazine on your local grocery store magazine rack? And don't tell me it wouldn't be due to advertising dollars. The gun rags love controversy, it sells thier product. Just look at all the caliber and bullet style debates that they use to sell magazines. With all the Glock owners out there, a good Glock controversy would be a boon to the magazine publishers.

Would the proliferation of P.D.'s and the F.B.I. issue Glocks if they were prone to K.B.s ? I think not. Contrary to popular belief, Glocks aren't popular w/LEAs because they are affordable. There are plenty of more affordable out there, and I think there are more than a couple of mfg's that would match Glock on a department's order of new pistols.

Fact is, Glocks work.

Yes the Glock has an unsupported chamber (so does the beloved 1911) and they can fire out of battery. I like it that way. I want every bit of reliability I can get. I want my Glock to fire after it's been dropped on the ground, in the dirt, during a struggle, after pistol whipping the dog crap out of some dirtbag etc...

The trade off - factory jacketed ammo. If your not willing to make the trade, don't go with a Glock. It's not for you. Remember, it was designed as a military and police service weapon, a role it fills well, very well. It's definitely not a tinkerer's toy or a platform for Joe **** the ragman's reloads.

If the K.B. thing was such a problem, and the fact that Glocks are so popular, don't you think that Glock inc would be innundated in lawsuits? Especially in our litigation crazed society? Think about it.

If you don't like a Glock, don't shoot a Glock. Don't bash it until you think about it and do some investigation, it amazes me how otherwise intelligent people will believe without reservation anything they hear.

------------------
Dan

Check me out at:
<A HREF="http://www.mindspring.com/~susdan/interest.htm]www.mindspring.com/~susdan/interest.htm[/URL" TARGET=_blank>
www.mindspring.com/~susdan/GlocksnGoodies.htm</A>




[This message has been edited by Dan (edited July 25, 1999).]

 

[Keith Rogan]

Dan,

I'm a Glock despiser meeself, but your points are good ones. Glocks have unsupported chambers and they warn buyers not to use reloads for that reason. Those warnings should be heeded.

I suppose the same prohibitions apply to 1911's that shoot high pressure rounds like the .38 Super or whatever. They probably kB once in awhile as well, but there are far fewer of them out there and you just don't hear about it.

If you like Glocks and want to save money on ammo by reloading, I would think the solution would be to get a Glock .45, the .45 is a more effective round and its loaded to lower pressures. Problem solved.



------------------
Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan

 

[BrokenArrow]

If I were told I would get a gazillion bucks for having a kB in a pistol with factory ammo, I know my first choice would be Glock!

There _is_ less case support, and the chamber walls _are_ thinner, so you _are_ closer to the edge in a Glock 40/45 than some others, but should be far enough away not to worry about it if you shoot good ammo in a clean gun.

The local sheriffs blew up a Glock 22 with factory Rem ammo, and the Amarillo TX PD had so many in their Glock 21s they swapped out all the barrels for aftermarket stuff.

------------------
>>>>---->

 

[Futo Inu]

Dan's the man!

 

[Greg Bell]

Ah yes, another internet conspiracy against the Glock. Poor Gaston, it must be tough.
Actually, I presume the problem has been exagerrated. I myself, an Arch-Bishop of anti-Glockery have never witnessed one. However, I also doubt the problem is complete bunk. It probably has more to do with the failings of the 40 smith round than the Glock's weak design. Still, for my money, I would sure prefer someting a little more substantial than a Glock if I shot 40. How about a P7m10--nothing could break that hog!
Greg-e-kins



[This message has been edited by Greg Bell (edited July 28, 1999).]

 

[BudGT]

I believe the appropriate title for this thread should have been "Reloading KaBoom" and not "Glock KaBoom".

99.9% of the time I hear this from a Glock shooter, it is also because a Reload was used.

Rule #1: Don't use reloads and blame them on the pistol.

------------------
*The G30....Glocks Stealth Bomber

 

[AC]

Where there is smoke there is fire. Why did the frame crack? I blew a case head on .45 1911 once. My fault [in those days I pushed pressures], combined with a weak case. Peppered my face with brass fragments [had glasses on so eyes were fine] and I thought the gun must have blown up. Found the case finally once I assured myself the gun was fine.

From the original post this sounded like just a case head rupture but the gun broke. As for the comment about picking up range brass, get real, I scrounge every case I can get and so does about everyone who doesn't get free ammo from the department.

So if you own a Glock you can't use reloads or lead bullets or you deserve to have your gun blow up? OK. Glocks never appealed to me much anyway. I'll go on with my Browning HP and Colt 1911 with scrounged brass and cast bullets and intact pistols.