Glock info please

[USNRet93]

Ayup, the self admitted Glock fan boy has a couple of questions.

Went to USAF Academy yesterday..took a look at the their gun and ammo department..Prices seemed high, Glock 48 for $500..but no tax so kinda a wash BUT...

Young counter guy, after I bought some brass 9mm ammo(not cheap either-$12 for 50 of MAGTEC, FMJ), I mentioned he had no steel cased stuff. Since I was looking at his Glocks.....
"Shouldn't use steel cased in Glocks, harms the extractor"
and
"didja know you ought to change the recoil spring in Glocks after 3000-5000 rounds"

So..true? Being on a retired guy's fixed income..like the $ of steel(like Federal, $7.50 per 50) but is the 2 above something I oughta do?

No steel and replace recoil spring after 3000-5000 rounds?

TIA

 

[TunnelRat]

It takes a steel of equal or greater hardness to damage another steel. While there may be some degree more wear on the extractor, you could likely buy half a dozen extractors with the money you saved by the time the extractor wears out.

Yes there are replacement intervals for recoil springs. It depends on the generation, but generally 3500 rd on a Gen 3 and 5000 rd or more on a Gen 4/5. That's for the standard models in 9mm, however. I'm not sure about the 43/43x/48. You can call Glock and ask them.

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[USNRet93]

It takes a steel of equal or greater hardness to damage another steel. While there may be some degree more wear on the extractor, you could likely buy half a dozen extractors with the money you saved by the time the extractor wears out.

Yes there are replacement intervals for recoil springs. It depends on the generation, but generally 3500 rd on a Gen 3 and 5000 rd or more on a Gen 4/5. That's for the standard models in 9mm, however. I'm not sure about the 43/43x/48. You can call Glock and ask them.

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Yup, I have sent a ? to both Glock and the Glock Store with an understanding of how their response might be 'colored' by who they are. Why I appreciate the responses here, along with yours..operators, end users, not retailers or manufacturers.

Thanks

 

[TunnelRat]

Those are the guidelines I follow. Given that Glock parts aren't particularly expensive, certainly less expensive than shooting 3500-5000 rounds, it seems fair. You can always go longer to the point of failures, but I wouldn't do that on a defensive firearm.

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[JDBerg]

In the latest (Jan/Feb 2020) issue of “Combat Handguns”, a current production, US made Sig P210 Standard was tested with Winchester USA Forged 9mm steel cased ammo. This was the second most accurate ammo tested at 15 meters with 0.75” accuracy, more accurate than Sig V-Crown JHP ammo in 115gr or 147gr. versions.

I think that many folks (myself included) would say that the last ammo they would run through an $1,100.00 gun is the steel cased variety, but here’s proof that this particular ammo is pretty darned accurate anyway. I have shot this Win USA Forged steel cased ammo more than a few times and it shoots fine through my Glock 17, although it stinks and its dirty.

 

[dyl]

Lucky Gunner did a steel vs. brass cased ammo for AR 15's here: https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/ and if you look at the extractors (scroll maybe 2/3 of the way down) the difference was minor and extractors functioned fine, the barrels were shot out before that point in their unrealistic extreme torture test. But having a spare extractor is always a good thing since they are cheap. The trick is to not misplace it....

I usually assume 5,000 rounds for a duty sized semi auto recoil spring, and sooner for a smaller gun. Last I checked, Sig's maintenance schedule for their pistols lists the extractor at 20,000 rounds, same as the extractor spring. (don't know about Glock)

I'm not sure I've reached 5,000 in a single one of my pistols because I cycle between 4-5 that I have for carry or home defense, and then there are a few I got just because I was curious. I guess this means I need to shoot more.

 

[AK103K]

For the past decade or so, Ive been putting around 15-20K through my one 17 in practice, and Ive been changing the RSA twice a year, or roughly around 7.5K each change.

The RSA replacement schedule has always been conflicting and confusing, and you, or at least I, always seemed to get a different answer each time I asked, and everyone seemed to have a different opinion.

Last I heard from anyone in some sort of an "official" Glock capacity, was basically what Tunnel Rat posted, 3000-5000 rounds, depending on the gun generation.




There is a "test", thats supposed to tell you if your RSA needs changing, and Im not sure exactly where that test comes from, but I have yet to have one of my guns fail that test, no matter how many rounds on the RSA. So Im not sure thats any kind of indicator.

Ive been trying to remember to change mine out more often, but Im getting CRS, and need to write it down, or put it in my phone with a reminder.


As far as the steel goes, cant help you there. I reload, and other than a trial with reloading some aluminum cases I picked up at the range, brass is all I load and shoot.

As far as the extractor goes, I had around 150K on my 17 when they rebuilt it and it was replaced. It was still working fine when the replaced it too.

 

[TunnelRat]

I've never had a Glock fail "the test" either so I also came to regard it as suspect.

I have one Gen 5 G19 sitting at just under 8k rounds. It still seems to function fine.

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[44 AMP]

As far as steel cased ammo is concerned, ask GLock. If they say ok, then yay for you and steel case savings. If they say Nein! then don't shoot it, or bye bye warranty. Up to you.

As far as replacing the recoil spring at "Suggested" intervals, take a look at who is suggesting the interval, and why.

Nothing wrong with buying new tires before your old ones go bald, but changing recoil springs at set intervals is only a peace of mind thing. Springs are cheap, and its costs little to "fix it before its broke", but there is the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" mindset too.

Consider this, just for comparison. Our Military adopted the 1911 in..well,, 1911, and kept it as a service pistol until the 1980s (84??)

Got any idea what round count required replacement of the recoil spring?

waits....watches the sunset, listens to the crickets chirping...…

No???

Neither does the Military! Because there ISN'T ONE. The GI requirement for replacement of the recoil spring has NOTHING to do with round count. It is entirely based on condition of the spring, damage, kinks, rust, cuts, etc, and absent physical damage the limit is SPRING LENGTH.

The GI shop manual lists a length for the recoil spring, If it is shorter than the spec, it gets replaced. If its not, it doesn't.

Replacing a recoil spring that is functioning properly at X number of rounds is cheap peace of mind (assuming you have confidence the replacement is at least as good as the original, which, it usually is) but it isn't a mechanical necessity.

Anything CAN break, having a spare recoil spring and extractor (the two vital parts needed to keep a semi auto running, and the most likely to wear out/break) is a good idea. Replacing either because of someone else's suggested schedule is, to me, a bit of a waste.

your gun, your call, parts are cheap.

 

[Tactical Jackalope]

In regards to routine maintenance, change the spring between 3,500-5,000 no later. It's $20 and a cheap insurance. (Gen 3) And later for Gen 4 & 5.

Now, steel cased ammo is usually crappy.I'd rather do brass any time. But shouldn't destroy your gun.

 

[JDBerg]

I was at the Glock Store in So. Cal. about 6 months ago and I bought a $7.99 RSA for my Gen3 17 and it was the first time in 10 yrs. and tens of thousands of rounds that I’ve replaced it and I still have the old one.

One of the things I like about the Gen3’s is that the RSA uses a flat wire spring, which experience (and opinion) tells me holds up acceptably well over time. IMHO, I’d rather keep the flat wire recoil spring setup in my STI Trojan 9mm 1911 than a round wire spring setup.

 

[American Man]

I've seen the Blue Label 48s from 390-460 depending on if you get the Ameriglo sights or not. The PX always charges way too much for glocks and you probably can get the blue label prices elsewhere.

 

[TunnelRat]

I was at the Glock Store in So. Cal. about 6 months ago and I bought a $7.99 RSA for my Gen3 17 and it was the first time in 10 yrs. and tens of thousands of rounds that I’ve replaced it and I still have the old one.



One of the things I like about the Gen3’s is that the RSA uses a flat wire spring, which experience (and opinion) tells me holds up acceptably well over time. IMHO, I’d rather keep the flat wire recoil spring setup in my STI Trojan 9mm 1911 than a round wire spring setup.

Although the round springs of the newer RSAs are rated to last longer according to Glock. Maybe that's more to do with the dual spring setup than the spring structure, however?

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[USNRet93]

Thanks for the great responses. As far as steel cases goes, probably just get brass or aluminum plus no issue with indoor ranges with those...no steel. But it does have a bit to do with WallyWorld, when they finally start to get low on 9mm ammo...not that way yet around here but the steel stuff does seem to be more plentiful than the others.
I’m one of those guys who wants, and DOES, shoot a lot...so s few $ here and there does make a (small) difference.

 

[JDBerg]

I’m one of those guys who wants, and DOES, shoot a lot...so s few $ here and there does make a (small) difference.

You should drive over to Cabelas in Thornton CO right off the 25, I used to buy a lot of Fed American Eagle ammo there when they put it on sale.

 

[Forte S+W]

Unfortunately, the necessary qualifications to work behind the counter at a gunshop is typically limited to knowledge of basic math, and sometimes even that seems to be waved, so it's unwise to take the word of the guy behind the counter at any gunshop.

Sometimes they're knowledgeable, but most of the time they're little more than an opinionated cashier.

The only thing I've ever heard about Glocks and steel-cased ammo is just how well Glocks feed the stuff compared to other firearms.

 

[USNRet93]

You should drive over to Cabelas in Thornton CO right off the 25, I used to buy a lot of Fed American Eagle ammo there when they put it on sale.

Been there a few times, pretty long drive from the ‘republic’ but yup, some good deals most times.

 

[JDBerg]

Although the round springs of the newer RSAs are rated to last longer according to Glock. Maybe that's more to do with the dual spring setup than the spring structure, however?

What I’m told, extended RSA service life in compact and full-size 9mm Glocks isn’t the reason Glock went with the dual spring in the Gen4’s.

A little backstory, we know the Gen3 pistols chambered for .40 S&W use the exact same dimension recoil guide rod and recoil spring that Gen 3 9mm pistols use. Since Glocks were originally designed for the 9mm caliber which has a weaker recoil impulse compared to the .40 S&W, the recoil guide rod and recoil spring rated for 9mm recoil are considerably weaker against the snapp(ier) recoil of the .40 S&W. This resulted in faster frame wear in Gen 3 Glocks chambered for .40 S&W. To alleviate this problem, Glock employed the use of the dual recoil guide rod-spring (“DRSA”).

The DRSA allows for better recoil force absorption that significantly minimizes frame wear and in turn results in better user recoil control in Gen 4 pistols chambered for any caliber higher than the 9mm.

Personal experience with many rounds fired over several years time tells me that the original flat wire RSA was sufficient for the Gen3 compact and full-size 9mm guns (I own one of each). I don’t own .40 S&W Glocks any longer so I don’t care about those. But Glock certainly likes to standardize the parts in its pistols. So the Gen4 compact & full size models got the DRSA in 9mm and .40 S&W, whether it’s needed (or not needed) for the 9mm; so why fix it if it ain’t broke?

 

[TunnelRat]

What I’m told, extended RSA service life in compact and full-size 9mm Glocks isn’t the reason Glock went with the dual spring in the Gen4’s.



A little backstory, we know the Gen3 pistols chambered for .40 S&W use the exact same dimension recoil guide rod and recoil spring that Gen 3 9mm pistols use. Since Glocks were originally designed for the 9mm caliber which has a weaker recoil impulse compared to the .40 S&W, the recoil guide rod and recoil spring rated for 9mm recoil are considerably weaker against the snapp(ier) recoil of the .40 S&W. This resulted in faster frame wear in Gen 3 Glocks chambered for .40 S&W. To alleviate this problem, Glock employed the use of the dual recoil guide rod-spring (“DRSA”).



The DRSA allows for better recoil force absorption that significantly minimizes frame wear and in turn results in better user recoil control in Gen 4 pistols chambered for any caliber higher than the 9mm.



Personal experience with many rounds fired over several years time tells me that the original flat wire RSA was sufficient for the Gen3 compact and full-size 9mm guns (I own one of each). I don’t own .40 S&W Glocks any longer so I don’t care about those. But Glock certainly likes to standardize the parts in its pistols. So the Gen4 compact & full size models got the DRSA in 9mm and .40 S&W, whether it’s needed (or not needed) for the 9mm; so why fix it if it ain’t broke?

Interesting then that they did dual springs for the Gen 5 when they don't make a Gen 5 in a caliber other than 9mm. Also they still ended up making different springs for Gen 4 in 40SW, hence the whole initial issues with the Gen 4 models, so it's not like going to the dual springs saved them the effort of having to make a spring for the 40SW itself. Would be interesting to ask Glock and see their official response (or is what you're saying what they told you?). What you say seems reasonable in terms of standardization and ease of production.

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[Brit]

Against all advice (some from me, and my own experience!) I bought a Glock 19 "Glock 4TH GEN. The day they got to my dealer.

Brass to the face, a hot case stuck under my safety glasses earpiece! Burn!

My Registered letter to Gaston, who I knew. Response to whoever in Smyrna,
give this pest something he wants! 6 new G17 magazines, perfect for my IDPA range bag, thank you. The Limp Wrist excuse for me did not wash.

The 4th mainspring worked, still in it.

The head-on collision my 2007 Jeep, and I was on Dec 26th 2015, wrote it off. Kept me out of competition for 18 months, then I found I more or less lost interest.
I had been a Pistol competitor since I was 18.

Reference replacing parts based on rounds fired (the amount that is) never counted them, never worried. My fairly recent purchase, Blue Box Glock 43X with factory-installed Ameriglo night sights! Sparked me up a bit.
I have installed quite a few steel night sights on Glock pistols (hate the stupid ones out of the factory!) And in every case, they had to be fitted a bit to the right, rear sight. Take sight tool to the range. The sights, in this case, were made for Glock. And rear sight sat right in the centre of the slide. And shot right to point of aim! Great sights, the red circle around the front green dot, in daylight, fabulous. My new carry. Gen 4 Glock 19, retired? Well unless I get a call out, Armed Security. Still, keep the G lic up.