Glock 43 has less recoil than the 19

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Josh17

New member
For me it does. What I don’t understand is how??

I do have small hands and the G43 fits like a glove.

While the Glock 19 feels kinda big, but I do have a good grip on it. Still doesn’t feel as good as the G43 does.

Also the Glock 26 I feel more recoil firing that (both gen 3 and gen 4) then the mini Glock 43.....

I even tried limp wristing them: I managed to get the G26 to get a double feed and the mag wouldn’t release! Horrible jam... Only took 5-7 rounds firing weak handed to get the jam.
I also believe I got the G19 to jam once weak handed.

Then I tried the G43 weak handed and went through 5 mags with zero issues, even rapid firing. What?

It should be the opposite, no? Or does anyone else with small hands also manage to control the single stack G43 even better then a large Beretta M9!?! I just find it so odd so I had to ask...
 
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Frank Ettin

Administrator
Josh17 said:
...What I don’t understand is how??

I do have small hands and the G43 fits like a glove....
Click to expand...
That's how. It's as simple as that.

Recoil energy and felt (perceived) recoil are two different things.

Felt recoil is a subjective matter. Various factors can affect how recoil is perceived. Gun fit can be a major influence, and things like the thickness and angle of the grip are some of the attributes of gun fit which can influence how one perceives recoil. Someone with small hands will get a better, firmer grip on a gun with a smaller around grip and will therefore be better able to manage the recoil compared to a gun with a larger, bulkier grip.

I was, a while ago, able to do a very direct comparison. I have a couple of Glock 19s. I can generally manage them quite well in stock form. But I decided to send them off to ROBAR for their grip reduction. I was able to feel the difference and find my modified Glock 19s easier to control. They feel like they have less recoil.

Recoil energy on the other hand is a precise, physical quantity that is a function of the weight (mass) of the bullet, the weight (mass) of the powder charge, the muzzle velocity of the bullet, the muzzle velocity of the powder gases, and the weight (mass) of the gun. If you have those quantities for a given load in a given gun, you can calculate the amount of recoil energy produced when that load is fired in that gun. And a heavy bullet will produce more recoil energy than a lighter bullet fired from the same gun at a comparable velocity. Note that --

  • Recoil energy is directly proportional to the mass of the ejecta, i. e., recoil energy increases as the mass of the ejecta increase. The mass of the ejecta is made up of --

    • The mass of the bullet; and

    • The mass of the gases produced by the burning powder (which is directly proportional to the mass of the powder charge).

  • Recoil energy is directly proportional to the velocity of the ejecta, i. e., recoil energy increases as the mass of the ejecta increase. The velocity of the ejecta includes --

    • The velocity of the bullet; and

    • The velocity of the burning powder gases.

  • Recoil energy is inversely proportional to the mass of the gun, i. e., as the mass of the gun increases, recoil energy decreases.

If you're interested, you can calculate the recoil energy of a given load using the following formula1:

WG = Weight of gun in pounds
WB = Weight of bullet in grains
WP = Weight of powder charge in grains
VB = Muzzle velocity of bullet in f/s
I = Interim number (Recoil Impulse in lb/sec)
VG = Recoil velocity of gun (f/s)
EG = Recoil energy of gun (ft lb)

I = [(WB * VB) + (WP * 4000)] / 225218

VG = 32.2 * (I / WG)

EG = (WG * VG * VG) / 64.4

My modified Glock 19s should actually produce slightly more recoil energy. The ROBAR grip reduction involves taking some material away from the gun reducing its overall mass (albeit not by much). Nonetheless they feel like they recoil less.
________________________

1. This formula is quite similar to a formula for free recoil set out at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_recoil, although I think that the formula from Wikipedia may be a little more precise based on what I've read in Hatcher's Notebook. The formula I've reproduced above, is from the Q&As at http://www.frfrogspad.com/miscella.htm (specifically the question about why some guns of the same caliber kick harder than others). John Schaefer (FrFrog) notes that, "..."4000" is the nominal velocity of the powder gases at the muzzle for commercial smokeless powder and the observed range is between 3700 and 4300 f/s. It is sometimes stated as 4700 in some sources but this is based on observations of artillery, not small arms...." The Wikipedia formula would use the actual powder gas velocity, which may not be readily available.
 
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tallball

New member
What Frank said. I have huge hands. Handguns that are too small and/or awkwardly shaped for me to grip properly often have more felt recoil for me than those that fit my hands better. For instance, my Taurus PT111 9mm is fairly gentle for me to shoot. I traded away my CZ70 32acp because it fit my hand so poorly that it felt like it was "kicking" me every time I shot it. But the two pistols have similar mass and 9mm creates much more energy than 32acp.

If the shoe fits, wear it? :)
 
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Jim Watson

New member
Interesting treatise, Frank. The contribution of powder gas to recoil is not great in a handgun with maybe 5 grains of powder and 125 grains of bullet, and simple power factoring will do for quick comparison. That won't work for a rifle with 50 grains of powder and a 150 grain bullet. The "jet effect" is much stronger.

And good to hear from Josh. I am in the market for a hideout gun a bit smaller than my Kahr CW9 and the Glock 43 was already on the short list. So is Ruger LC9s. Shield and P938 are not.
 
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stephen426

New member
There are other things to consider as well... Small guns tend to have different spring rates due to less slide travel and less slide mass. That is why smaller guns are usually harder to cock than full sized pistols. Gun manufacturers have to put spring rates to accept a wide range of bullets or else guns would either jam all the time, or get beat to death. The bore axis on smaller guns is also lower so that could impact felt recoil as well.
 
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TailGator

New member
What do you say, Frank? How does doubling your salary sound?

Seriously, well done. Nice contribution to the site.
 
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Josh17

New member
Darn Frank I couldn’t have asked for a better reply! That’s really awesome.

Sadly though it appears I suck at shooting all Glock’s. I went back to the range and put a good 200+ rounds and got jams. I have a firm grip but nope, I still get limp wrist jams. I can fire 50 in a row one handed with zero issues then suddenly it jams every 4th round (one handed) and I made sure to keep the same grip/stance each time.
Glock 19 limp wristed one handed.
Glock 26 also.
Glock 43 also.
Glock 42 - only 1 time. Oddly this only had 1 jam I recall firing weak handed.

All the 9mm Glock’s above had a good 4-6 jams a piece, firing one handed (and a couple even two handed!) which is just a ridiculously high rate. I suck, oh well.

I then fired 357 mag and 44 for the first time ever...Out of a Snub Nose And.... I felt less recoil firing a 357 Snub nose magnum then a full sized Glock 19 in 9mm.

I see online a lot of people complain the Ruger LCR and Ruger SP101 in 357 mag has too much recoil. Yet I couldn’t tell the differene between 38 Special recoil and 357 mag (fmj) so yeah, I guess felt/perceived recoil can vary so much person to person. The 9mm in a Glock 19 kicked more then a 357 Snub mag did for me..... either I’m holding revolvers perfect and Glock’s totally wrong, or my felt/perceived recoil is just crazy weird
 
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74A95

New member
Recoil is also ammo dependent, and the 357 mag stuff might have been a watered down version. It's hard to say without knowing the details.
 
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highpower3006

New member
OP, you must have a really different technique for shooting than I do. I too have relatively small hands and I have yet to get my G19 to malfunction. I am naturally left handed, but I am right eye dominant. Many, many years ago I trained myself to shoot handguns right handed because I wanted to be comfortable using my 1911's. Since then I automatically carry and shoot with my right hand, but I am equally as proficient (or inefficient) with my left.

I have two main carry guns depending on the clothing I am wearing and my mood, one is a Glock 19 and the other is a Shield in 9mm. I have carried the Shield for the last four+ years and the Glock for about a year. I shoot quite a bit and have never experienced a failure with either gun. I can certainly feel a difference between the felt recoil of the Shield vs the G19 although neither is objectionable nor is there enough difference to cause my shooting to suffer. I will say that the Glock feels a lot more comfortable in my hand than the Shield and I do shoot it more accurately than the much smaller Shield. I am sure it is a combination of the better grip feel, longer sight sight radius and slightly better sights on the Glock.

I did have a chance to shoot a G43 a few years ago and it felt substantially the same as the S&W, so I saw no reason to change what I was already satisfied with. I can't help but think that there is something in your shooting technique that is causing such a noticeable difference between the way you shoot the different guns.
 
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Slimjim9

New member
It's definitely personal. The G43 was probably the most painful single stack 9 I tried, but the PPS M2 was way better. Like you say, it usually feels like less recoil than my G19 shooting a mag back to back. But hand fatigue is somewhat worse after a PPS session than a 19 session
 
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Sequins

New member
How you hold it makes all the difference. I am a big handed man and small guns are worse for me than big ones. An ill-fitting .380 firing plinking ammo hits me harder than my 92FS with Gold Dot 124gn bullets.
 
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