Glass Question

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Savage110

New member
Alright,
I've narrowed my rifle choice down to either a Savage 10FP in .308 or the 110FP in .30-06.

Now, I'm faced with the question of which scope to put on the rifle. I've been looking at the following models:

Leupold Vari-X II Scope, 3-9x40mm, Duplex
Burris FullField II 3-9X40mm Duplex
Redfield Tracker or Golden Five Star, 3-9 x 40mm
Nikon Buckmaster Riflescope, 3-9x40mm

Of the above scopes, what kind of experiences do you have? Is any one of the above significantly better than the others?
I'm going to be using my rifle primarily for target shooting, although I may take it hunting eventually. Out to about what range will a 3-9x40mm be usable?

Thanks for any input you can give me.
-Nic G.
 
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swatman

New member
Any of the above mentioned will work well. as for the range you can use it, you should be able to easily use it to 600+ yards.
 
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Andrew Wyatt

New member
you might want to consider a scope with a lower power, like 1.5 or 2 on the low end, depending on whether you're going to be shooting at things in close cover or not.
 
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Art Eatman

Staff in Memoriam
If you reload, I'd pick the '06. Otherwise, the .308. Ammo cost is a major factor.

Neither cartridge is really the cat's meow beyond 300 yards or so, for hunting. The shorter action of a .308 lends itself to a bit better accuracy for target shooting.

I've used the VX II 3x9 on my '06 to kill deer at 350 and 450 yards, but I'd been shooting centerfires for bunches of years by that time, and had several years' experience with that particular rifle.

I've never shot at anything beyond my 500-yard targets, but it seems to me that 9X or 10X is being pushed a bit for that distance. OTOH, anything more than 3X or 4X for most hunting is unneccesary.

Art
 
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Ledbetter

New member
For target shooting

A strong scope is desirable. Even at 200 yards or so. I have a Bushnell Trophy that goes up to 18x and a Bushnell Scopechief that goes up to 20x. Very bright optics for "medium-priced" scopes.

Regards.
 
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DougB

New member
Nic,

If you haven't already done so, you might want to read the responses to a VERY similar question I posted a couple of weeks ago (I listed three of the same scopes you did). I'm helping a friend decide what to get (FYI, he went for the Tikka .308 over the Savage and other rifles considered). Anyway, here's my attempt at including a link to the thread, though I'm not sure how it will work:
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=119548

If not, just look back a couple of weeks for posts by DougB.

By the way, my friend hasn't made a final decision, but is leaning toward a Bushnell (AKA B&L) Elite 3200 or a Nikon Buckmaster. I might go for the Burris myself, due to them being fully multicoated (the others do not have ALL lenses coated on both sides - I believe Burris does). The price of a matte black scope isn't much greater than the others, but the Burris in Nickel (to match my friend's rifle) jumps quite a bit. This isn't based on any real-world evaluation I've done - just reading.

Good luck.

Doug
 
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echo3mike

New member
Both calibers are excellent choices for hunting or target shooting. The .308 might be a little more preferable if you're going to shoot more than two or three boxes of ammo at the range: little bit easier on the recoil side, but not by much depending on the rifle. But both can handle ranges upto and past 1K yards, with fairly consistant accuracy. The '06 is a little better suited to the longer ranges. HOWEVER, Palma rifle competitors shoot 1000 yard matches using the .308 and 155gr bullets with open sights. Thier accuracy is astounding.

All of the scopes you mentioned seem to be good choices for a low to medium dollar range scope. I don't think you'll be too sorry with any of them. The Leupold's have a pretty good warranty...don't know about the others. The glass is probably similar quality with all the scopes on your list.

The 3-9X40 is also a good choice for power. Won't have to worry about loosing alot of your FOV when you change ranges and they have adequate power for the longer shots.


I'ld probably look to find the best deal on one of these scopes for my deciding factor.

My two cents.


Regards,
S.
 
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Mo_Zam_Beek

New member
Nic -

A) Do some real home work on glass - not just reading the drivel. Check out the book "Ultimate Sniper" by John Plaster. May also want to see what you can find over at the Snipershide or Snipersparadise. Deals can be found over on Snipercountry too.

B) Good glass can not be had for less than $750. What you are looking for in this price range is servicable glass. While there are a whole host of specs that need to be compared (see book for these) the three biggest are a manufacturer that will stand behind what you purchase, repeatable turrets, quality coatings. Coatings are the hardest to compare b/c it is propriatary info. Personally in this price range - Loopy all the way. They will stand behind what they sell.

C) 9 power is sufficent for 1k yrds. Cheap glass w/ high magnification is worthless anyway as it is generally cloudy. Secondly, with any heat anything over a 10X gets damm hard to use. What you want is something that will allow you to discern mirage at as many distances as possilbe, have a realtively wide field of view, and plenty of eye relief.

D) Retical style - duplex - fine cross hairs are important for longer range. If you are going to be shooting at known distances these are great. If the distances are unknown - you may want to consider a Mil Dot. (You can range with a standard duplex too - just not as well).

E) Target turrets - get them, coin slots blow when you shoot at a variety of distances and in changing climatic / elevation conditions.

F) Caliber - .308 will be sufficient for animals less than elk. If you are really interested in these two calibers only and want to focus on target shooting - consult a reloading manual and a balistic calculator. The choice will show itself. Remember, accuracy is a result of many factors - bullet shape and its ability to pierce the wind, quality of powder, brass, primer, sizing, factors relating to weapon - lock up, lock time, trigger, barrel length, barrel twist, stock / action / bedding, break in, etc....etc...



Art - how does "length of action" have do with accuracy?


Bottom line Nic - good glass costs a lot of money for good reason. Anyone that says their $300 Loopy/Bushnell/Tasco/insert name here is every bit as good as a USO/NightForce/Schmidit and Bender - doesn't know what they are talking about.

A person can waste a ton of $ on cheap and mid priced glass. Know what you buying. Know how to compare them. Know that regardless of claims a $300 scope will not be anywhere near as good as a $1,200.00 scope. As a result make your purchase with acceptable losses in some areas (like the glass - clairity / ability to resolve) but hold the line on things like turret repeatability.

Good luck

Do your home work - don't waste your $
 
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uglygun

New member
in 100% agreement with Mo_Zam_Beek when it comes to scopes with good "mechanicals", having a scope that will come back to zero after you monkey around with the target turrets is a GOOD thing.

If it's mechanicals are not good enough to give the user consistent, accurate, and repeatable adjustments(be it 1/8, 1/4, or 1/2MOA) then it's really of no use to the shooter as a target scope. If you're going to get on those dials to put in an elevation or windage change depending on the shooting conditions, it really pays to have a scope that is mechanically excellent and permits you do do all these things. Should be clear that it's important to a target shooter or precision shooter who is familiar with the trajectory of his load and knows the point of impact over various distances.


If you're going to have a scope where you zero it once for one range and never touch the settings again, then lower cost scopes might fit the bill. This might be for the more average shooter/hunter who will simply prefer to use Kentucky Windage or holdover for longer distance shots.


Good clear optics is another important factor.


The 3 things I look for in a scope are good clear optical quality glass, good/accurate mechanicals, and also having a company that will stand behind their product with good customer service.
 
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ronin308

New member
Mo_Zam_Beek- Its not like he's buying an AI, Tango, Landtec, Robar, etc. for goodness' sake! Putting a Nightforce on a Savage 110 is sort of silly. Of course a US Optics is technically much better than a $300 Leupold, only a fool would deny that.

Savage110- I'd suggest the Leupold VX-II (not the Vari-XII, there is a difference) in 3-9x40mm. Leupolds are clear, durable, and high quality. I don't think you'll be disappointed.
 
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Dave P

New member
I'm in the "more magnification is better" camp, for target shooting. For 100/200 yrds, 14x is nice, 20x is nicer yet, and 36x is smokin'! Leupold.
 
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Legionnaire

New member
nic, you got my input on your other thread. There you also asked about Burris. Good medium quality scopes. The one I bought for a handgun, as I found the eye relief on the Burris more forgiving than on the Leupold. That was a 2-7X variable mounted on a T/C Encore. But as I noted elsewhere, I tend to Leupolds.

ronin308's comment on the VX-II rather than the Vari-X II is on target. Most (not all) of the scopes in the Vari-X II line do not have positive click adjustments. As has been stated, good mechanicals that can repeatedly be adjusted and returned to zero "is a good thing."
 
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Savage110

New member
I found the Burris FullField II 3-9X40mm, black matte, ballistic plex reticle on sale for $190. I'm seriously considering getting this scope... would you say that the Burris has good mechanicals that can repeatedly be adjusted and returned to zero? More importantly, for that price, would I be getting a quality piece of equipment? Thanks for your input.
-Nic
 
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midnight

New member
In my experience, I've found 3-9 adequate for hunting, but it leaves a lot to be desired for target shooting at 100 yards. I have a Bushnell Banner 6-18x50 from Wal-Mart that I absolutely love. It provides plenty magnification at 100 yards, and is a suprisingly well built piece for the money.
 
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Dr.Rob

Staff Alumnus
Burris has really clear optics and is a very well made scope, don't skimp on the mounting hardware (rings, bases) when you make your purchase.

I've used a 3-9 variable scope for years but the longest shot I've ever made on game was something like 410-425 yards. Beyond that range, I know the rifle can do it, the question is can I?

I prefer the 30-06 over the 308, though the shorter bolt on the 308 makes for a faster re-load. Both models you mentioned are heavy barreled rifles that aren't that much fun to tote around for a long day in the field.
 
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Art Eatman

Staff in Memoriam
Mo: The shorter action is a bit stiffer. Stiffness/rigidity throughout a rifle helps accuracy. The difference is not dramatic; it's just part of the "little bit, here; little bit, there" that can add up to a better package if done correctly.

Art
 
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