Gifting and Strawman buys...

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hogdogs

Staff In Memoriam
So I am goin' to see if this is nearing the threshold.

So I been wanting a Mossberg 930 and finally think I can justify cleanin' old shoes out of one corner of the closet for it.

So I want it to be a gift from wife, daughter and son so I am not selfishly buying it for myself.

So I would do the leg work and get the lowest price commitment from an LGS and tell the family where this is and total bottomline... Has this Father's Day Gift gotten us closer to a strawman buy since I "shopped" for my own gift?

Brent
 
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Doyle

New member
I'd say not even close. The reason is that the gun is going to reside inside a house that is jointly shared by you and your wife. Unless you live in one of those communistic states that require each gun to be registered, there is no "title" to a firearm like there is for a car. The fact that your wife and you live in the same house means, for all practical purposes, that what's yours is hers and what's hers is hers. Therefore, she owns everything anyway.
 
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Spats McGee

Administrator
I think you're fine. The only piece of this puzzle that bugs me is "getting a price commitment" from the LGS. I'm not sure exactly what that means. Doing the research and finding the best price does not a straw purchase make. If you were to give her the money so that she could go out and buy it for the purpose of giving it to you, that would be a straw purchase.

I know that this suggestion is not as fun, but you could also just tell them that you want a card with a "gift certificate" for the Mossberg. Then you could just go buy it yourself. When you open it at home, you could even shout, "It's just what I wanted!" :D
 
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Tombstonejim

New member
My wife and I buy guns for each other all the time. When I/we bought her last benelli I filled out the paper work and paid for it and just handed it to her right in the store. No one cares.
 
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NJgunowner

New member
Arg, your sentence structure gave me cancer!

So
So

soooo

So .. so so so ....so

Damn teenagers! :D

But anyway, as long as you don't give them money to buy a gun you can't legally buy on your own it isn't a straw purchase. The straw man law is there to prevent people from buying guns for people who can NOT legally buy it themselves. I doubt anyone cares about someone buying a gun for someone who CAN legally own the gun, for the simple fact that you could just walk in and buy it yourself!
 
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divil

New member
My wife and I buy guns for each other all the time. When I/we bought her last benelli I filled out the paper work and paid for it and just handed it to her right in the store. No one cares.
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But anyway, as long as you don't give them money to buy a gun you can't legally buy on your own it isn't a straw purchase. The straw man law is there to prevent people from buying guns for people who can NOT legally buy it themselves. I doubt anyone cares about someone buying a gun for someone who CAN legally own the gun, for the simple fact that you could just walk in and buy it yourself!
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Ah the old straw man argument again...it's been a while!

Firstly, someone does care. They may not be in every store all the time but they're out there, and they care. However there is nothing illegal about buying a gun for someone else as a gift, so you're right in that no one cares about that.

Secondly, there is no "straw man law" as such. The law just says that you have to answer all the questions on the form truthfully. One of them is "are you the actual purchaser off the firearm?". If you answer "yes" to that truthfully, then you are fine. If you answer "yes" but you're lying, then it's a "straw purchase" and is illegal. Your crime is furnishing false information, and nothing more. It has nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not the true buyer of the gun could have bought the gun themselves without your help.


http://www.atf.gov/training/firearms/ffl-learning-theater/episode-4.html:

.... A straw purchase is a purchase in which the actual purchaser uses someone else — a.k.a. the “straw person” to make the purchase and complete the paperwork. Generally straw purchasers are utilized because the actual purchaser is not eligible to conduct a transaction because they’re in one or more legally prohibited categories, such as being addicted to a controlled substance, being a felon, being underage, and so on.

However, a straw purchase occurs even when the actual purchaser is not a prohibited person. The crime committed is knowingly making a false statement on the Form 4473 indicating that the straw purchaser is the actual purchaser, when this is not the case.

Felons, who are also prohibited from conducting a firearms transaction, will sometimes attempt to obtain guns this way, because they wouldn’t pass the NICS background check and could not truthfully fill out Form 4473. If, however, Bobby was with his father or other legal guardian, and his father was legally eligible to obtain the handgun as a gift for Bobby, his father would fill out Form 4473, undergo the NICS check, and assume legal responsibility for the transaction and the gun. Bobby’s father could truthfully complete the Form 4473 to indicate that he is the actual purchaser because he would take title to the weapon and then transfer the firearm to Bobby as a gift.


What if a customer who qualifies to own a gun buys a firearm as a gift for someone else?


The same rules apply. A transaction is legal as long as the person who fills out form 4473 does so truthfully and completes it as the actual purchaser. In that particular situation, we usually like to make sure they are aware of the rules associated with ATF I 5300.2. Again, you should feel comfortable denying the purchase if you think the customer is being dishonest in any way.
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Edward429451

Moderator
There is nothing wrong or out of the ordinary to shop smart and make planned purchases of gifts within the family. So what if it happens to be a firearm. It is a financial consideration which necessitates the planning, not an attempt to skirt the precious Law. Let's face it, I don't know what she wants, and she don't know what I want. In this economy, poorly purchased gifts are idiocy. I do my own homework, she does hers, we get exactly what we want.
 
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Aguila Blanca

Staff
hogdogs said:
So I would do the leg work and get the lowest price commitment from an LGS and tell the family where this is and total bottomline... Has this Father's Day Gift gotten us closer to a strawman buy since I "shopped" for my own gift?
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How might this even approach being a straw purchase, considering that buying a firearm with the intention of giving it as a gift is completely legal? (Unless, of course, the intended recipient is a prohibited person.)
 
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hogdogs

Staff In Memoriam
No I am not a restricted person. I just wanted to give ya'll something to think about.

But I was curious regarding my doing the work to get the best price for the family as I would if I were buying the firearm for myself.

I tend to have good luck getting the point across to my local shops that I really want to do business with them and they seem to do real well getting the price down close enuff to the Bud's price.

Brent
 
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