getting the little guys to shoot straight... no, not the grandkids...

[Magnum Wheel Man]

I have begun a quest... to get my lil calibers shooting like lasers...

one of the biggest challenges is the 22 Hornet... yes, it'll shoot minute of angle, or a little over... but I'm looking to cut those groups in 1/2...

one thing I remember my loading mentor telling me, is 22 caliber cast bullets, can shoot as good as jacketed bullets, but won't do it very often... because a variance in bullet weight, is a much higher percentage on a little gun, than in a big gun... I've taken that comment to heart, & looking at all variances... BTW... I'm not shooting cast in the Hornet... yet, but I used that for an example...

so... my cases are all Remington cases, all have been sitting in ammo cans since the 80's & were all purchased as Remington yellow box & green & yellow box ammo in the 80's ( supposedly better brass than Remington is turning out today ) so I have a file trim die, & I'm trimming them to within .010"... I have a flash hole measuring tool my buddy gave me, & noticed I have as much as .005" difference in flash hole sizes... I have a Lyman flash hole uniforming tool, but the bigger ones are bigger than the flash hole portion of the drill, so I'll either sort them by flash hole size, or pick up a small drill bit the same size as the bigger hole, & get them all the same diameter... at this point, I may sort them by weight... & will scale each powder charge ( of my test loads anyway ) & weigh the bullets

seems like a lot of extra work to go through but I'd like to see 1/2" groups with the Hornet... the rifle is a Ruger 77-22 Hornet, with a 1 in 9" twist heavy barrel grafted onto it, & I'll be using Sierra 55 grain spire point boat tail bullets...

I also have a 17 Fireball I'll be working on lil groups with as well

anyone develop loads that shoot tiny groups out of lil caliber cartridges ???

how are your groups, what caliber, & what do you do, that you think gives you that much better group than average ???

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

Toss the biggest ones and uniform them to the drill size, is what I'd do.

I load for .204Ruger and .22-250. The advantage I have over your two cartridges is that Norma brass is readily available. They both shoot around 1/2 MOA without any special tricks.

The Hornet headspaces on the rim, I assume? If so, I'd sort by (or at least check for) rim thickness too.

 

[Magnum Wheel Man]

the rim thickness suggestion is a good one...

I didn't want my original post to get too long, but I'm also seeing a lot of case growth... I'm trimming to 1.385" "ish" with my file trim die... the "ish" is slight variance with the camphor tool deburring the filed case mouth on my RCBS case prep center...

but I'm seeing once fired growth to 1.39" to 1.4"... so that's 5 - 15 thousandths growth per firing... I'm wondering if I need to measure to the case mouth lip in the chamber & use that as a trim to length... perhaps the thin brass is flowing to or towards that lip, & if I were just a couple .001's" from there, I would have less to trim... also worried about case life, as it has to be thinning, if it's flowing that far per each shot ???

I also have several custom cartridges... 22 CFM ( center fire magnum ) a gun that uses steel lathe turned cases, & is loosely based between the 22 Cooper Center Fire Magnum, & the antique Velo-dog cartridge... this cartridge is chambered in a revolver, so super tight groups aren't as practical, but I do shoot cast lead 22 bullets as an option in that gun...

... & the 257 Special, is 22 Hornet cases cut to 38 Special length, & uses mostly 25-20 bullets ( I also cast lead for that cartridge )... this is also in a revolver, but I do have a Contender barrel for that cartridge, so I'll be looking for wringing that cartridge for more accuracy down the road...

also sold my 5.7 X 28 semi auto, but retain a Contender barrel in that cartridge...

so I have a lot of "the lil guys" that I'm hoping to come up with a program that nets me some small groups out of these lil cartridges

so if you shoot Hornet, or any of the "sub calibers, or small cased cartridges ( even 25 acp, or 32's which I also load for ) & you have accuracy tips that work for you, please list them... thanks

 

[dahermit]

Browning 1885 (low-wall), Remington case, Remington 6-1/2 small rifle primers, 10.2 Lil'Gun, 45 grain, double-hollow point Calhoon Bullet. Velocity = 2750fps. .481 five-shot (of course), group at 100 yds. Bullet is seated to touch the lands using a Stony Point comparator. Addendum: Sized only the neck using a Lee collet die.
Note: I had little luck using the traditional .22 Hornet powders (2400 Et. al.). Until I hit on the Calhoon bullet and Lil'Gun, the results of my hand loads were unremarkable to say the least...the .22 Hornet was living up to its reputation for being "cranky"
The little Browning is my favorite rifle. It is a "working" rifle inasmuch as it sits next to my gun room window where I shoot woodchucks and other assorted interlopers in the goose pasture of my rural home. I kneel down on a pad on the floor, open the window, and take my shot. Like firing a cap-gun or .22 long rifle. Devastating on varmints even though that load is way under published max.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

Been thinking about this...

I'll bet that rim thickness doesn't make much difference, within a few thou, but I'll be on each individual case, rim consistency matters quite a lot.

A rim that varied by 4 or 5 thousandths would effectively create that amount of bullet run-out.

 

[Magnum Wheel Man]

so... you're thinking the distance between the case mouth, & the top of the rim, would be more critical, than the actual rim thickness ???

 

[flashhole]

Brian made a good comment but i would change the word consistency to uniform, especially with neck thickness and runout. I shoot 221 Fireball and I re-form all my brass from 223 cases and much prefer military brass over commercial brass because they are thicker. I inside neck ream and outside neck turn all in the same step with the K&M tool. Results are remarkably uniform piece to piece and that shows up in the accuracy department.

My gun is a Rem 700 stainless with a fluted barrel and Boyd's laminate stock. The rig is very rigid for the case size and accuracy is outstanding. It has its preference for bullets but the gun is sufficiently high quality that you can tell the difference between high and low quality bullets. I can't make that claim with other guns I own but this one has been a joy to work with.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

No, not to the mouth, really. Variations in rim thickness essentially tip the whole case in the chamber which seems to me like it would be the same as bullet run-out in a semi-rimmed case head-spacing on the shoulder. You'd want some way of measuring the actual rim thickness all the way around. I know 22LR match guys separate ammo by rim thickness but I don't know if they check consistency in a single case or if there's even a variance enough to matter on a single case.

 

[FrankenMauser]

Sort by weight. (brass and bullets)
Size minimally after fire-forming.
Pay attention to neck tension, and toss outliers into the "practice" pile.

Throw powder charges by hand, only. (Tiny case + high pressure = exacerbated problems with powder charge deviations.)

 

[Jimro]

Use the mildest primers you can find, Rem 6 1/2 or even small pistol primers to reduce initial pressure variation. The smaller the case the more initial pressure variation affects the pressure curve.

Jimro

 

[big al hunter]

but I'm seeing once fired growth to 1.39" to 1.4"... so that's 5 - 15 thousandths growth per firing...

I am assuming that you full length resize your hornet cases. With that assumption I recommend sizing so you don't move the shoulder of the once fired case more than .002. The hornet headspaces off the rim. If you full length size by the directions that come with the dies it moves the shoulder back to factory size, not your chamber size. That allows room for the case to grow in the chamber when fired. This will not only save case life, it will also make it headspace on the shoulder (possibly increasing accuracy). Several companies sell case measuring tools that you can use to measure from the head to the shoulder.

 

[frankgh22]

All great advice so far. While I haven't done this for anything smaller than .243, look up Miller Twist rule. Once you have the Sg of your 55 gr bullet in a 1:9 twist if it is above 2.0 you can lose accuracy. Of course, there is a lot of argument about that, but it seems to make a difference to me especially past 500 yds. At 100 yds, maybe not a noticeable difference.

 

[PA-Joe]

Is this a 223 or a 224 barrel? What is the twist rate and what grain bullets are you trying to shoot?

 

[FrankenMauser]

I forgot to add ....
Try some small pistol primers, if you're shooting mild loads.

 

[flashhole]

Pistol primers or mild primers is good advice. You want your powder to push the bullet out of the case, not the primer.

 

[Magnum Wheel Man]

Thanks for all the suggestions... the revolver ( fast twist 22 Hornet ) was chewing up the SP primers pretty bad, so I switched to the SPM primers, & didn't have any more issues... most of what I'll be using for these loads will be 6.5 Remington SR primers...

could also go back to the SP with CCI's I think the original loads were with Winchester SP, which I'm sure have a much softer cup than the CCI's

I think I'm going to pick up this Collet neck sizing die from Lee... should cut down on work ( I normally decap, then wet tumble, then lube & size, then re-wet tumble to remove the lube ) the Lee Collet neck sizer say's no need to lube the cases, so they'll fit my chambers better, & likely eliminate that "growth" of the brass some anyway, & remove that 2nd wet tumble step... both the revolver & the rifle were chambered by the same guy, using the same reamer, so hopefully, the chambers are close enough to the same, that I can interchange the loaded ammo only neck sizing

 

[Scorch]

My 2 cents worth:
* Use 40 -45 gr bullets. Small cases do not give heavier bullets enough velocity to really stabilize them very well. I always had best luck with 40 gr in my 22 Hornet.

* Use WW296 or 4227 powder. If I remember right: 45 gr bullet over 10 gr of 4227 fps gives 2,400 fps (approximately). Same bullet over 9.5 gr of 296 gives 2,500+. 40 gr over 11.5 gr of 296 gives 2,900 fps, a screaming load.

* If you like cast bullets, a 45 gr cast/gas checked bullet over 4.5 gr of Unique will hit 2,800 fps as well.

* Use small pistol primers, your case is tiny, only 1.4" long.

 

[Magnum Wheel Man]

SCORCH... you did notice this is a 1 in 9" twist ??? I have stabilized 68 grain bullets out of the revolver with a 6" 1 in 9" twist ( at normal pistol distances, up to 50 yards ) I'd think the rifle capable of pushing the 55's - 50 yards further without destabilizing ???

 

[caz223]

I had a 77/22 in .22 hornet that never did shoot straight.
After about 5 years of kibitzing with it, I traded it in and got a remington 700 in .223-best decision I ever made.

The 77/22 is made for a rimfire action and has a breech bolt that is of poor design, in my opinion. I never got mine to be repeatable. I loved the look and feel, the gun was beautiful, hammer tone finish beautiful wood, but it just shot like poop. I really wanted to love that gun. But it was a love/hate thing.
Maybe someone else with more experience or patience has come up with a fix, and will chime in to help you.
My advice, swap to a different shootin' iron. I'm gonna bet someone here has a absolute tack driver in .22 hornet, and I'm also gonna bet it's not a bone stock 77/22.
Saw a blurb online that looked promising. Search for 77/22 bolt fix, they now make pins and shims to get your bolt shooting better. Wish these were available back then.

 

[Magnum Wheel Man]

BTW... I do have a "more accurate" platform... a CZ bolt rifle I bought used...

the "short" story... found it at my local gun shop... it had been just traded in the day before... my FIL collected CZ's & didn't have a Hornet, so I snapped it up right away... was in the store the following week, & the owner asked if I wanted to sell it ??? turns out the previous owner had traded it in, on a "new" Ruger 77-22 Hornet... turns out the new Ruger shot horribly compared to the CZ, & he'd liked to get the CZ back... but I'd already put it in with it's brothers... still there today

also... the story I've heard, is the newer Ruger rifles are much better than those earlier ones... if you had the hammer finished barrel, yours must have been "newer" ??? Mine was just purchased 2 years ago, a stainless & laminate stocked rifle... 1st thing I did, was replaced the barrel with a 1 in 9" twist barrel, & had my retired smith buddy go through the rifle... so I'm sure it's as capable as any of the Hornets... I just want to get the group size to about 1/2 what they are currently...