General semiauto question

[Fuzzy]

I'm looking at picking up my first pistol. I've been looking around and a lot of different pistols have a lot of different features and I was hoping that someone could explain to me why these features are desirable.

I'm looking through the CZ catalog and I see that they have about a million variants on the basic CZ-75B. I'm wondering why different people would want all these different features and which applications would call for one of these variants over another.

Why would someone want a single action only or double action only pistol?

Is a decocker 'safer' that just a safety? How so or under what circumstances?

What's a firing pin block safety and how does it differ from a regular safety?

Thanks,

 

[dsk]

The reason for the differences is because manufacturers aim to please (no pun intended). There is a huge, often volatile difference in opinion on what action type is the best. For example, Heckler & Koch simply gave up and offer their USP pistols with no less than 9 different action variations!

There are advantages and disadvantages to each trigger mode. A short single action trigger allows you to get the fastest, most accurate repeat shots. It is also the most likely to be touched off by accident if you're not minding your trigger finger. A long double action trigger is more safe because of the long, heavy stroke. However, precision shooting is much more difficult unless you're trained in good trigger control. And of course, if you're well-trained then you probably don't need a double action trigger to begin with! Those who despise DA triggers will buy a SA auto. Those who are afraid of SA triggers will buy a DAO (double action only for every shot). And of course many feel only the first shot needs to be protected against an accidental discharge, hence the prevailance of pistols that are DA only for the first shot.

Regarding safeties that prevent the gun from firing when engaged, some folks want one to add an extra measure of safety, or to temporarily foil someone who snatches your gun from you (giving you precious extra seconds to get it back or go for another weapon). Others however feel a safety will get in their way while under stress and don't want one.

Regarding decockers, if your gun is a combination DA/SA you need one to safely return a cocked hammer to the at-rest mode. If the gun is DAO then it doesn't need one, and thus won't have one. A decocker will either work as a safety as well (such as on Beretta 92 pistols), or it will only decock the piece and not prevent use of the trigger (such as on SIG pistols).

Firing pin safeties simply lock the firing pin until the gun is fired. They prevent a dropped gun from going off accidentally. Many older firearms do not have one. And of course there are those who say new guns don't need them either, as they feel that they complicate the design and are failure-prone.

Anyway, folks will argue the various merits of each to no end. In the meantime, smart manufacturers will offer a model in each configuration and hope for the best. I wish I could help you decide which mode is best for you, but in the end it boils down to your skill with a firearm. If you're inexperienced a DA trigger will be safer, but you'll also have a harder time hitting your target. The reverse is true for a SA trigger. Glock invented their so-called "safe action" trigger that supposedly is the best of both worlds (heavier than a SA, but lighter than a DA), but of course there are those who say it is a jack of all trades, master of none. Like I said, it's impossible to please everybody.

 

[croyance]

Desirable is in the mind of the beholder. Some people prefer rib-eye over fillet mignon. Others are vegetarian.

Some features are:

DAO - or double action only trigger. Some argue the appropriateness of this nomenclature, Jeff Cooper among them. It replicates the feel of a revolver trigger. Administrators and those worried about law suits sometimes like them because it takes a longer trigger pull, and usually harder trigger pull to make the gun go boom. With this type of trigger action the gun does not need to be carried on safe, if a safety is provided. In semi-autos the Para-Ordnance LDA and Kahr have the smoothest and lightest feeling triggers. The Beretta has a heavier pull, although it is also smooth.

SA - single action. It has a consistent trigger pull from first to last. The gun owner does not have to master a double action first trigger pull, followed by shorter, lighter single action trigger pulls later. Generally SA guns have less take-up than DA/SA guns. The trigger pull is also lighter than a DA trigger pull. This type of gun should be carried on safe. The 1911 and Browning HiPower are the best known guns featuring this trigger action.

DA/SA aka TDA (traditional double action) Most modern pistols use this trigger action.

"Safe Action" trigger - like the Glock. Total misnomer, as this safety is built into the trigger. That is, you cannot pull back the trigger if you pull only on the outer trigger, about 1/8" thick. Many dislike the springy trigger feel. It goes "sprong" when you dry-fire it. (Note: ask before you dry fire somebody elses gun. They may not take it so well.)

Location of the safety. Some guns have frame mounted safety, like the 1911, Browning HiPower, CZ-75/85, and H&K USP. Many find this easier to use, since you press down to deactivate this safety. Correspondingly, putting the gun on safe is not as natural.
A slide mounted safety works in the opposite direction. Those who put the time into learning it have no issue with it.

You have been looking at the CZ catalog. I think that you will be well served with this gun. It has a much lower cost than other guns of its quality, is very reliable, and accurate. Every one I have handled has a good trigger pull. Before you buy a gun though, find a range that rents guns. Try out as many different kinds as you can.

 

[GePZo]

I was in your shoes last week.

I ended up getting a CZ 40B.

The price was good for a first gun, the caliber is powerful enough to give me confidence that it will stop anyone it hits, should it come to that, is cheaper than .45 for practicing, and it feels right in my hand.

I really didn't do enough research though. The DA/SA is fine with me. The safety situation is where I have a few misgivings about the gun.

The safety on the CZ does not have a decocker. So, if you do load the gun, but not fire it immediately, you have to manually lower the hammer by pulling the trigger and controlling its descent. I can do it, but its a helluva lot less stressful if all you have to do is flip the safety and the hammer will drop, like my buddies Beretta.

The safety on the CZ will only engage when the hammer is up, ready to fire Single Action. This is also when the gun is most dangerous, since requires very little trigger pull to shoot, and I'm glad its there.

If you're comfortable with this safety arrangement and the lack of a decocker, go for the CZ. If you'd like some more reassurances that you won't accidentally discharge the weapon, you may want to investigate the safety options further, and select a gun with a decocker, etc.

Gepzo

 

[Futo Inu]

I like de-cocker mechanisms

I believe they are a valuable type of safety that has two distinct advantages over a strictly SA without a de-cocker:

1. IF one want to carry in the DA (for first shot) mode, rather than cocked and locked, for whatever reason, obviously, de-cocking is infinitely safer than manually lowering the hammer on a live round with your thumb.

2. Perhaps more importantly, when one wants to empty a loaded gun completely, racking the slide to eject the live round before cleaning, examining, or whatever, it is safer to decock after removing the mag, but BEFORE racking, because on a 1911 design for example, one MUST disengage the manual safety, AND disengage the grip safety for that matter (of necessity to hold the gun still), in order to rack the slide to eject. This makes me a wee bit nervous every time I do this, with only a 4 pound SA trigger standing between my potential clumsiness and a hole in the wall.

 

[Eric Larsen]

I gotta jump in here..."Regarding decockers, if your gun is a combination DA/SA you need one to safely return a cocked hammer to the at-rest mode" I must disagree....respectfully, of course. Every gun you have will not have a decocker, whether its a wheel or just tda s/auto. Millions of people have manually decocked their tda guns thousands of times for over a century without a decocker. I wont deny they take the charm out of it and some of the risk...but if mastered...like it should be, there is very little risk involved. I believe it should be a basic and almost automatic function for any shooter to learn.
Decockers are mechanical and if you depend on them and them only....they too will bite you one day. Shoot well

 

[centralpadoug]

Take 'em out for a test fire! Find someone who has a variety of the pistol options you mentioned. We/ I could go on and on about what you should do...it still boils down to what feels good, works well for you and your budget will tolerate.

My favorite way to introduce someone is to start them off with my 22 target auto, move to the 9mm, and then the .45...different actions, different recoil, different for different purposes...I am sure you will make a good and well informed choice, be sure to have doing it!