Fun With M14 Barrels, Stocks, and Iron Sights

[B. Lahey]

I've been saving up to build my IDE sidestamp Polytech M14 clone into something nice for a while now, and was planning on doing it at minimum expense, but my grandfather passed on last week leaving me some money. I'm going to invest most of it, but I figure he would have liked the idea of me spending a little bit of it on my rifle project.

I already bought a TRW bolt, but have not thought much about the other fun components yet. It will be mostly a range gun, but it doesn't need to be a supermatch target rifle. I'm not going to shoot it in competition and I would like it to be practical in the woods.

All I know so far is that I am going with a wood stock, no plastic, no rails, and I am sticking strictly with irons, no optics. Who makes nice stocks? National Match sights or something else? Who makes nice barrels?

So what do you guys like in the barrel / stock / sights department? I don't even know where to start, there is a wild assortment of M14 components out there...

 

[T. O'Heir]

Start by having the TRW bolt installed by a smithy. It's not a drop in part. A bolt has to be fitted for headspace.
Then look into a nice walnut stock and have the rifle bedded to it. While you're at it, look into match sights and a trigger job.
Gunparts lists a NM front sight at $26.20. They don't have any NM rear apertures though.

 

[B. Lahey]

Yeah, I'm going to have SEI do the build, but I'm acquiring parts right now.

 

[Swampy1]

B Lahey,

Wenig makes the best wood... from plain Jane to as fancy as you want to pay for.

Re sights.... for a woods gun you don't want the NM sights. Stick with the standard GI issue for low light conditions. The NM's are fine in bright sunlight and a white target background... not in the woods.

Douglas and Kreiger both make excellent M14 tubes. I like Wilsons on my M1's, but don't know if they make one for the '14 or not.

Best,
Swampy

Garands forever
__________________
2007 NRA Missouri State 600 yard Service Rifle Champion.
Score 774-29X... with an M1 Garand

 

[kraigwy]

You said you want a heavy Match barrel. Try Brownells Barrnett Barrels. He made most of the Barrells the service teams used when they were shooting M14s. When I was running the AKNG Marksmanship unit Barnnetts barrels were the only ones we bought. That is for the M852. for the M118s we got the Military Match barrels, they had the 4 grove barrels which shot the 173s better. The 6 grove Barrnett did better with the 168s. I tried to issue each team member two rifles so we could shoot what ever ammo was available.

Boyds in SD make good M1A stocks. I think bishop made the best but they arnt around anymore. Springfield and FA have the sights.

I'm glad to see someone else goes for Wood stocks instead of the plastic.

This is my M1A I got in 1977. I've been shooting it in High Power matches every since. I've shot out several barrels and stretched out more then one sling, other then that I've had no problems. It still shoots today.

 

[kraigwy]

Wait a minute, where did this come from????????????

Re sights.... for a woods gun you don't want the NM sights. Stick with the standard GI issue for low light conditions. The NM's are fine in bright sunlight and a white target background... not in the woods.

First off you can get the NM sights with differant apetures and differant size front post.

Depending on your eyes you can go for the .495 or .520 apeture. I've shoot in some low light conditions. In siper school we had to shoot both scope and irons during low light conditions. I also ran several NG sniper schools using the M21 and M1C/D.

The thing about the NM vs the Service Grade sights is the 1/2 min vs 1 min. adjustments. Also the NM have closer tollerances making them more positive.

 

[Swampy1]

First off you can get the NM sights with differant apetures and differant size front post.

Depending on your eyes you can go for the .495 or .520 apeture. I've shoot in some low light conditions. In siper school we had to shoot both scope and irons during low light conditions. I also ran several NG sniper schools using the M21 and M1C/D.

The GI rear aperture is (IIRC) about .083". Lets in a LOT more light than either one of the NM apertures. Much easier to find and ID a target in low light, i.e. "in the woods".

Best to all,
Swampy

Garands forever
__________________
2007 NRA Missouri State 600 yard Service Rifle Champion.
Score 774-29X... with an M1 Garand

 

[B. Lahey]

Wenig makes the best wood

Just checked out their webpage. Very nice.

For the barrel, I'll mostly be shooting el cheapo ball (brass case, mostly milsurp) in the 150gr neighborhood. I have some M118 stashed away, but I kinda reserve it for boltgun use. Commercial match ammo is not cheap or plentiful either, this rifle will mostly shoot ball. What kind of specs should a barrel have to shoot ball well?

Thanks for the info, all.

 

[Slamfire]

You said you want a heavy Match barrel. Try Brownells Barrnett Barrels

That is the barrel on my Match M1a's. I am unaware of a better deal than offered by Homer of Champion's Choice. Barnett barrel installed for $329.00

http://www.champchoice.com/

DOUGLAS M1A, 6 GROOVE, 1/10 TWIST HEAVY BARREL
DHB610

M1A-7.62 Douglas Premium Grade Heavy Barrel6-groove, 1/10 twist - recommended for across the course and 1,000 yds. with Sierra 150, 168 or 180 gr.; Hornady 168 gr.; Lapua 167 or 168 gr. bullets. : This custom M1A rifle barrel comes complete with rod guide and is fitted and headspaced to your receiver. (Please send receiver, bolt and flash suppressor for proper fitting of new barrel). (Old barrel will be returned).

$329.00 EA

As for GI barrels. I was able to purchase a like new GI barrel. I screwed it on a new SA M1a action. The headspace exceeded my commerical 308 Win field gage. I took the barrel off.

Later I found out from a Army buddy, he had checked out 12 M14's that went to Iraqi in Desert Storm. The unit had just received them from Anniston Army Depot, and the rifles were either new, or just refurbished. (the unit was going to use them to shoot land mines)

He checked the headspace and found that each rifle exceeded his 308 Win field gage.

Apparently the headspace of a military barrel is greater than commerical standards. Which will just cause confusion.

 

[B. Lahey]

Anyone know the optimum barrel specs for 150gr ball?

It's not going to see much supermatch ammo.

 

[Swampy1]

Anyone know the optimum barrel specs for 150gr ball?

It's not going to see much supermatch ammo.

BLahey,

Not to be flip here, but if all you are going to shoot is ball ammo, then just get whatever standard GI profile barrel you find. It's kinda' hard, and not much point, to try and optimize for the least capable ammo.

Just my 2 bits,
Swampy


Garands forever
__________________
2007 NRA Missouri State 600 yard Service Rifle Champion.
Score 774-29X... with an M1 Garand

 

[B. Lahey]

Not to be flip here, but if all you are going to shoot is ball ammo, then just get whatever standard GI profile barrel you find. It's kinda' hard, and not much point, to try and optimize for the least capable ammo.

Well, Swampy, If you re-read the original post you will see that nowhere did I state that I wanted a heavy supermatch barrel. That was something you guys projected onto me. I am certainly open to all options, but I didn't specify.

Now, what's the optimum barrel specs for 150gr ball?

 

[azredhawk44]

Chrome lined, 1:11 or 1:12 twist for 150gr ball.

Check out Kreiger's Criterion line of barrels. High quality, but affordable.

I have a wood-stocked, bedded Armscorp receiver equipped with a Criterion chrome lined barrel and National Match sights. Chamber is much tighter than on my Springer M1A. Shoots slightly tighter groups, too. I've only got about 100 rounds through it so far, though.

ETA: Don't send it to SEI if you want a traditional wood-and-steel M14. Look at Fulton Armory if you want one of the more commercial, high-visibility smiths, or a smaller smith like Phil Arrington can accurize your rifle.

SEI, IMO, is much more interested in "modernizing" the M14 with ninja rails, non-traditional stocks and various optical packages. While this may make for a better TEOTWAWKI/SHTF/BBQ/***LOL gun... I personally don't find that type of gun as aesthetically pleasing to shoot or to use on the hunt or as a hiking companion.

Considering your taste in refurbishment requirements, you might or might not share in my tastes. FYI, and worth every penny you paid for it.

 

[SR420]

SEI, IMO, is much more interested in "modernizing" the M14 with ninja rails, non-traditional stocks and various optical packages.

LOL !! Now that's some funny **** !!

Actually, SEI prefers their modified USGI synthetic stocks over the SAGE EBR that some units specify.
Notice the pair of US NAVY SEAL MK14 Mod 0s with all of their "ninja rails" in this picture.

Choose SEI only if you want the finest M14 available that is
built up just like the M14 rifle our military is currently getting.

I suggest the match grade standard profile 22" SEI barrel with M80HT and a M118LR chamber.
NOTE: The medium heavy Crazy Horse MK14 barrel can be turned down to USGI
standard profile and it can be had with M80HT and the M118LR chamber











.

 

[Jason_G]

NOTE: The medium heavy Crazy Horse MK14 barrel can be turned down to USGI
standard profile and it can be had with M80HT and the M118LR chamber

Why not just buy a standard profile barrel? Kind of a waste to turn it down if you ask me.

Look B. Lahey, if you are not going to shoot anything but milsurp ball, there is no sense in wasting good money on a lot of accurizing accessories, self bedding stocks, and heavy NM barrels that have been suggested, because you are not going to see the benefit of any of it. If you want to shoot milsurp ball out of it, that is 100% OK, but you'd be better off just sticking with a standard profile barrel, or medium profile NM at the most, and whichever sights you prefer. Spend the rest on surplus ammo while you still can. Enjoy your rifle as-is, and if you find that there's something you would like to change or upgrade, you can. Just sell off your "standard" part and buy whatever you want.

Jason

 

[SR420]

Quote:
NOTE: The medium heavy Crazy Horse MK14 barrel can be turned down to USGI
standard profile and it can be had with M80HT and the M118LR chamber

Jason_G

Why not just buy a standard profile barrel? Kind of a waste to turn it down if you ask me.

Other than the SEI Crazy Horse MK14 barrel and the Springfield Scout barrel, who has 18.0" barrels available?

 

[B. Lahey]

I'm going to have SEI do the build because they were supercool about answering my questions when I wanted it done on the cheap. I have nothing against Fulton, Walt is the man, but they didn't even return my e-mails. That, and a Fulton build would run into the multiple thousands of dollars from looking at their worklist. I can't hack that right now.

I figure that as much military work as SEI does, they would be more than capable of turning out a traditional M14. They sure have not tried to push me into any goofy rail-covered nightmares yet, and I don't expect them to.

I would like a barrel that can shoot ball as well as can be expected, that's what it will eat in the near future, but it would also be nice if I could get good results if I start reloading later (and it is almost certain that I will at some point). I specified 150gr because I just don't shoot much at 300+ yard ranges.

Nothing is set in stone at this point, though.

Thanks for the tips, all. Any info is good info at this point.

What's the difference between a M118 chamber and a non-M118 chamber?

 

[Jason_G]

Other than the SEI Crazy Horse MK14 barrel and the Springfield Scout barrel, who has 18.0" barrels available?

You can have barrels made to your specs if you want. Barnett for example. Or you can have a standard contour GI barrel cut down if you just really had to have an 18". To me the full 22" makes a better balancing rifle, but not everyone's arms and stance are the same, so I guess that might vary from person to person. I'm just saying there's no sense buying a medium heavy barrel only to turn it into a standard profile barrel. That's just money that's getting turned down into a pile of shavings.

Jason

 

[SR420]

Not much money though, maybe $40.00.

 

[azredhawk44]

Other than the SEI Crazy Horse MK14 barrel and the Springfield Scout barrel, who has 18.0" barrels available?

Kreiger, Criterion and other barrel manufacturers have 18" barrels for sale.

What's the difference between a M118 chamber and a non-M118 chamber?

My spitball guess here, I'm sure Walt will enter this thread at some point and correct me if I'm wrong, but I would guess that a M118 chamber is a 7.62 NATO chamber, with a slightly longer headspace. 1.634-1.635 or so. A non-M118 chamber will be around 1.631- 1.632 or so, intended for .308 Winchester cartridges.

I can shoot any 7.62 NATO cartridges from my 1.631 headspaced chamber, as well as .308 Winchester.

But... shooting .308 Winchester from a longer headspaced chamber is a bad idea. However, the benefit to a long headspace is increased reliability when the chamber starts getting dirty at the expense of accuracy.