Fun at the range

HistoryJunky

New member
Today I finally got out to an outdoor range in Southern Wisconsin. It was the first time I've ever had the chance to shoot at an outdoor range, and the first chance I've had to shoot past 25 yards.

I don't really know if my results were very good. I was shooting a Serbian N-PAP AK in 7.62x39 with iron sights. One of the other guys shooting next to me when I was at 50 yards even made a joke that I wouldn't hit anything at 100 with it.

Tell me what you guys think.
 

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TunnelRat

New member
You don't really say so I'll assume this was at 100 yds? Also the picture is a bit hard to read. I'm assuming that on that target those are 1" grid squares. If that was all from the rifle I'd ask what position you were in. Were you standing, sitting, prone, if sitting were you using a rest? Also, what ammo were you shooting? If seated from a rest, to be fair that's not that good. I count 11 squares across so by my earlier assumption, 11". The rifle should group better than that. If standing it's not great either, but much more understandable. I will say don't be afraid to try different manufacturers of ammo. My WASR seems to shoot best with Wolf, certainly better than Red Army Standard or Tul Ammo. Off a rest with a red dot the groups can go from 4 MOA to up to 6 MOA when I switch back and forth. For some reason my particular rifle doesn't like 122 gr RAS ammo, but even within a model each barrel can be its own entity. Other than that, work on your trigger control, develop a stable shooting position, and be sure to find something on the target to get a consistent index to reduce your group sizes.

As for the comments you got, there's this stigma about AKM pattern rifles that they can't be shot well. I've had guys seeing me make adjustments with AK sight tools and ask me if I was joking. What you need to understand about these people, is they aren't experienced shooters. Now I may catch flak for this, but it is my opinion. The 7.62x39 cartridge is not ballistically great and the rifles that shoot that cartridge often leave something to be desired, but the rifles should relatively easily be capable of man sized hits at 100 yds and I can squeak out 2" groups or so at 50 yds with a red dot (no magnification) from my WASR, so about 4 MOA. This is from a rest that leaves something to be desired and a shooter with good but not great trigger control and not very good eyesight, even with glasses. My point is, if I can shoot what I do with the WASR, then others can easily do the same or much better with practice.

Some of these myths are based off of the experience of certain US soldiers in the Middle East, but the marksmanship of a lot of our adversaries over there is downright terrible and many believe that Allah himself will use his will to guide the bullets to their targets, "Inshallah", or "God willing" (Cpt. Ronald Fry a former Green Beret discusses this in his book Hammerhead Six). The rest of the myths come from bad movies and tv. The AKM can perform adequately with a good shooter, as can any rifle really. When you hear people bad mouth it, smile and nod and remember that the knowledge and skill set of lot shooters out there is often exaggerated in their own minds (mine included).
 
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HistoryJunky

New member
You don't really say so I'll assume this was at 100 yds? Also the picture is a bit hard to read. I'm assuming that on that target those are 1" grid squares. If that was all from the rifle I'd ask what position you were in. Were you standing, sitting, prone, if sitting were you using a rest? Also, what ammo were you shooting? If seated from a rest, to be fair that's not that good. I count 11 squares across so by my earlier assumption, 11". The rifle should group better than that. If standing it's not great either, but much more understandable. I will say don't be afraid to try different manufacturers of ammo. My WASR seems to shoot best with Wolf, certainly better than Red Army Standard or Tul Ammo. Off a rest with a red dot the groups can go from 4 MOA to up to 6 MOA when I switch back and forth. For some reason my particular rifle doesn't like 122 gr RAS ammo, but even within a model each barrel can be its own entity. Other than that, work on your trigger control, develop a stable shooting position, and be sure to find something on the target to get a consistent index to reduce your group sizes.

As for the comments you got, there's this stigma about AKM pattern rifles that they can't be shot well. I've had guys seeing me make adjustments with AK sight tools and ask me if I was joking. What you need to understand about these people, is they aren't experienced shooters. Now I may catch flak for this, but it is my opinion. The 7.62x39 cartridge is not ballistically great and the rifles that shoot that cartridge often leave something to be desired, but the rifles should relatively easily be capable of man sized hits at 100 yds and I can squeak out 2" groups or so at 50 yds with a red dot (no magnification) from my WASR, so about 4 MOA. This is from a rest that leaves something to be desired and a shooter with good but not great trigger control and not very good eyesight, even with glasses. My point is, if I can shoot what I do with the WASR, then others can easily do the same or much better with practice.

Some of these myths are based off of the experience of certain US soldiers in the Middle East, but the marksmanship of a lot of our adversaries over there is downright terrible and many believe that Allah himself will use his will to guide the bullets to their targets, "Inshallah", or "God willing" (Cpt. Ronald Fry a former Green Beret discusses this in his book Hammerhead Six). The rest of the myths come from bad movies and tv. The AKM can perform adequately with a good shooter, as can any rifle really. When you hear people bad mouth it, smile and nod and remember that the knowledge and skill set of lot shooters out there is often exaggerated in their own minds (mine included).
Yes I think my position may have been part of the problem. I didn't have a rest, I was sitting with the magazine rested on the bench for about half. The other half were standing.

Like I said, it's my first time shooting at 100 yards. I honestly was surprised I hit the target. It looked pretty small from that distance. I'm sure those groups will shrink with practice.

I had already put a few mags through the rifle at this point too.

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk
 

Mike38

New member
I'm sure those groups will shrink with practice.

They will. Most people won't admit it, but every person here, first 100 yard target looked just like yours. Hang on to it, and compare it to one a year from now. Chances are you will be amazed.

I see you're from Illinois, where did you shoot at?
 

TunnelRat

New member
Like I said, it's my first time shooting at 100 yards. I honestly was surprised I hit the target. It looked pretty small from that distance. I'm sure those groups will shrink with practice.

No doubt. That's one of the best parts of shooting, seeing your progress right in front of you in a very measurable form.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to beat you up. I'm just trying to let you know that the N-PAP is capable of better accuracy than rumor might make you think.
 

HistoryJunky

New member
They will. Most people won't admit it, but every person here, first 100 yard target looked just like yours. Hang on to it, and compare it to one a year from now. Chances are you will be amazed.

I see you're from Illinois, where did you shoot at?

I actually went up to the shooting range in Yellowstone Lake National Park in Southern Wisconsin. It's only 10 or 20 minutes more of a drive than my normal indoor range(KAP Guns in Machesney Park), and it's totally free instead of $20/hour.

And no worries TunnelRat. I know you're just giving positive encouragement. I'm not really being down on myself either, I just see so many small groups on here. :eek: One day.
 

g.willikers

New member
If you hit the bullseye once, you can do it again - and again, and.....
But it's very difficult to learn how on your own.
Much better to find good instruction, either live and in person, or at least from books and videos.
It will greatly shorten the process and reduce ammo and range costs.
And enhance the fun and satisfaction.
 

snolden

New member
For learning how to shoot either buy a rest (sandbags or others) or use a field expedient backpack. Having that mag on the table is really rough on consistency.
 
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