Full auto pistols

Amin Parker

New member
Hi all,

Cz, Glock, Beretta, HK are some of the brands that offer a full auto variant of their full size 9mm pistols.

What possible use do they offer? A skilled shooter will be able to fire the semi version fast and accurately enough for any scenario where a pistol can be used.

The wisdom is probably that its a full auto arm that can be concealed, but do they really serve a purpose when used in full auto mode?
 

44 AMP

Staff
A very small niche....

There is a very small niche where a full auto pistol might be more useful than the regular semi auto one, and that would be where limited suppressive fire is needed, and a regular full size (or even a compact) SMG is too large.

Plainclothes bodyguards, whose job is to get the client away from danger might have a valid use for a machine pistol. Concealable, but able to dump a burst to keep heads down while your team hustles the target into a vehicle and away might be useful to someone.

However, for anything else I can think of, the full auto pistol just doesn't serve any really useful purpose. On the other hand, a selective fire pistol would serve just as well as its semi auto only version, with the added ability for full auto in an emergency.

Some FA pistols have been made in the past with extra grips (a Beretta, I believe) which allow them to better serve as a micro compact SMG. The classic Schnellfeuerpistole (Mauser Broomhandle pattern) is large enough and built so a two handed grip on the gun to aid shooting is possible.

One pistol, the HK VP70 had a detachable stock, and the selector switch was on the stock. Semi auto handgun, select fire SMG with stock attached.

There are very, very few civilian legal full auto pistols (in the US), and no GLocks, because the Glock wasn't available until after the registry was closed.
 

dlb435

New member
There was an interesting shoot off between two Uzi's. One was full auto and had to shoot full auto all the time. The other was semi-auto. Ten different shooting courses were set up. The semi-auto won 9 out of ten.
The only time that the full auto was better was at close range with tagets close together.
Considering that a full auto pistol is VERY difficult to control; I don't think it would even win that one.
The true purpose of a full auto pistol is to intimidate.
Totally useless for anything else.....OK makes a good paper weight.
 

speedyjerry

Moderator
Good for movies when thugsters and cops leap over furniture with a pistol in each hand holding them sideways blasting away and screamng like Sly Stallone does when he fires an M-60 from the hip with one hand.

:rolleyes:
 

AK103K

New member
What possible use do they offer? A skilled shooter will be able to fire the semi version fast and accurately enough for any scenario where a pistol can be used.
While Im not a real big fan of the "pistol" type guns, I can see them having a place, especially up close. With the usual high cyclic rate of the full auto pistols, I doubt a semi shooter would be able to get off three to five rounds as fast as one pull of the trigger on the auto would give, and with the right technique, at reasonable ranges, I think youre going to see good, solid hits.

The wisdom is probably that its a full auto arm that can be concealed, but do they really serve a purpose when used in full auto mode?
I think if you understand their use, and when to use it, yea, they do. The multiple, instantaneous hits of a full auto, work along the same lines as buckshot out of a shotgun does in respect to overloading the nervous system. For up close, fast shooting, I can see one working very well, if youre practiced with it.

There was an interesting shoot off between two Uzi's. One was full auto and had to shoot full auto all the time. The other was semi-auto. Ten different shooting courses were set up. The semi-auto won 9 out of ten.
This is really more of a shooter issue than a gun issue. In the case of the Uzi, anyone familiar with the gun should be able to squeeze off single shots without to much trouble.

I've run similar courses with my MP5, and had no troubles taking long shots singly, with the selector set to full.

The only time that the full auto was better was at close range with tagets close together.
This tends to be the world of the SMG. But regardless of the gun, its the shooter whos running it, not the other way around.

Considering that a full auto pistol is VERY difficult to control
Again, this depends on the shooter, and the gun. Ive seen people shoot full auto Glocks with little trouble and great effect. Ive also seen what happens with a MAC when shot with the stock collapsed. The position of the grip in relation to the weight/mass has a big impact on things.

Also, shooters who understand full auto and its technique, tend to do better than those who dont. A lot of the problem here is, many shooters have no or little experience or training with one to really know or understand. The movies certainly have it wrong for the most part, which is usually very obvious the first time you shoot one, if thats where you learned how. :)
 

egor20

New member
When I was stationed in Italy I had a chance to see a few of the Carabinieri doing range work with the Beretta 93R. Its not a true FA pistol, (3 shot burst only) but it was an impressive firearm non the less. I would have to agree 44 AMP it would be a very useful gun for diplomatic protection or bodyguard work.
 

brabham78

New member
I've never shot a full auto handgun, but it seems to me like they'd have these traits:

1. Poor control (more misses than hits)

2. A terrible waste of ammo. (Not good if you happen to be needing it)

3. A lot of fun :)
 

lawnboy

New member
The SS pulled the UZI when Regan got shot. I can see it's usefulness in that situation

I gotta ask: what were they going to use an UZI for in that situation? As I remember it, that situation was essentially a melee of agents who all tackled the shooter. There were dozens of people all scrambling around. Full auto weapons would seem to me to be the last thing you'd want to deploy. I'm trying to remember what weapons I actually saw in the footage of that event. But I can't. So I must accept that they pulled an UZI. I'm just wondering what they were thinking of using it for?
 

Pico

New member
What where they thinking?

Simple. The President has been shot. I'm secret service. I have an Uzi and there will be no more of that today.

Pico
 

FrankenMauser

New member
saw a guy on youtube shoot himself in the hand with a full auto Glock.
No. No. No.
It wasn't a 'guy that shot himself in the hand'. It was an idiot that BROKE the foregrip off the pistol, and didn't take his booger hooker off the bang switch.

I'm not a Glock fan, but he shot himself in the hand with his own stupidity and ignorance, not a Glock.

So I must accept that they pulled an UZI. I'm just wondering what they were thinking of using it for?
Suppressive fire. The Secret Service knew very well that that weapon was good for nothing more than spraying lead, in that situation. If it had been fired, it would have been for nothing more than getting the president out of harm's way.


I don't see a point to the whole "auto handgun" thing.

You don't have to. Just don't go raining on other people's parade, if they do see the point. ;)
 

spodwo

New member
Simple. The President has been shot. I'm secret service. I have an Uzi and there will be no more of that today.

Pico

lol? huh? ya lost me there man.

Look up some photos of the assassination attempt of Reagan in the 1980s and you will get the point.
 

Amin Parker

New member
I was referring specifically to the Glock 18, Cz 75 full auto, Beretta 93R etc etc etc.

Weapons like the uzi or micro uzi or Cz Scorpion are not what i had in mind when i started the thread, i apologise, i should have been specific.

That being said, cover fire can be achieved more accurately with a semi auto handgun than full auto. This is even more relevant when engaging multiple targets.

The other shortcoming i just thought of is ammo capacity, if one was going for concealment, it would probably be carried with a 17 or 20 shot mag. In full auto that is not a lot of ammo before a mag change. In a semi 15 rounds is plenty, especially in trained hands.

I have never fired one of these pistols. The closest i came was a few modified pistols that went full auto by accident and it is really hard to shoot properly.

I would really like to know how full auto pistols offer any advantages over their semi versions. Surely they must be there for a reason since high profile squads use them.
 

spodwo

New member
Surely they must be there for a reason since high profile squads use them.

I think you are seeing these fall out of favor...for all the obvious reasons.
An H&K MP5 PDW is not that much larger and has better handling capabilities.

Consider the handling characteristics of these full auto pistols, the mag capacity...and then look at the diminutive MP5 PDW with it's folding stock, fore grip and you have a much better platform for self defense.

The venerable Beretta 93R was dropped by one Italian agency...

Those auto pistols are out there but it's a poorly concieved idea in my opinion. The H&K provides the better answer...
 

smince

Moderator
I gotta ask: what were they going to use an UZI for in that situation?
At the time of the incident, the Secret Service didn't know there was only one deranged shooter. For all they knew, it could have been a full-fledged terrorist attack.
 
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