I have a friend who is on standing orders that his company is going to bosnia in around 4 months. He is looking for a good side arm that would be extremely reliable. He has looked at the HK mrk 23, but has made no discisions. I am wondering if any of you who are currently military or have been in the past have any good suggestions for him to look at for a backup.
friends looking for pistol--4 Bosnia
- Thread starter 18908148
- Start date
Unless he's a Spec Forces guy, I would be very surprised if the military let him take a personal sidearm.
He ought to wait until he gets there and look around for something he can obtain locally. CZs ought to be plentiful in that part of the world, or so you'd think.
BTW, does anyone know if peacekeepers are regularly issued a pistol?
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"Put a rifle in the hands of a Subject, and he immediately becomes a Citizen." -- Jeff Cooper
He ought to wait until he gets there and look around for something he can obtain locally. CZs ought to be plentiful in that part of the world, or so you'd think.
BTW, does anyone know if peacekeepers are regularly issued a pistol?
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"Put a rifle in the hands of a Subject, and he immediately becomes a Citizen." -- Jeff Cooper
James Montes
New member
Being in the Military, I can tell you with some certainty that it would be damn near impossible for your friend to take his own personal weapon into a relatively hot zone like Bosnia.
Whats wrong with the weapons issued to him?
Whats wrong with the weapons issued to him?
Short Bursts
New member
The currently issued 9mm automatics with issue full-metal-jacketed bullets are not nearly as effective as a .45ACP or .40S&W>
I can speak from personal experience with overseas deployments in the Army: if your buddy takes a personal weapon into Bosnia he will have to sneak it in and most likely lie to his officers about it. We had to certify "no brass and no ammo" going into and out of Somalia for all weapons/ammo that were not GI issue. Also, if he uses non-issue ammo in an actual engagement he could face UCMJ charges. Don't want to embarass Uncle Sam with an incident. You can just imagine the headlines: "American GI uses Black Talon ammunition on local civilian insurgent". In Somalia I had to confiscate this very same ammo from one of my soldiers who had "found it". I did not want him to get court-martialed for using hollow-point ammo on a Sammie. Soldiers are subject to the Laws of War and the Geneva Convention and last time I checked hollow-point ammo was a big no-no; hollow-points, dum-dum bullets etc. are specifically outlawed because they are considered to cause unnecessarily vicious wounds. Besides, his issue Beretta and NATO 9mm will do just fine when he is in camp. When he ventures outside and the S*** hits the fan he will want an M16A2. 
My advice is stick to what the Army issues him.
My advice is stick to what the Army issues him.
Al Thompson
Staff Alumnus
You friend is best equipped with what ever uses 9mm ammo. There will be very little in the way of resupply if it's an odd caliber. Might get some .45, but would not count on it.
I would advise another M92 - he can get parts if it breaks, magazines and won't get busted if he flashes.
As for the question about "peacekeepers being issued pistols", it depends on the weapon authorized for the duty slot. Lots of M16A2's, very few M9's.
BTW, it's not "red tape". When he gets busted and loses his pension, (not to mention the gun) "red tape" will be the least of his problems.
Giz
[This message has been edited by Gizmo99 (edited December 01, 1999).]
I would advise another M92 - he can get parts if it breaks, magazines and won't get busted if he flashes.
As for the question about "peacekeepers being issued pistols", it depends on the weapon authorized for the duty slot. Lots of M16A2's, very few M9's.
BTW, it's not "red tape". When he gets busted and loses his pension, (not to mention the gun) "red tape" will be the least of his problems.
Giz
[This message has been edited by Gizmo99 (edited December 01, 1999).]
Well, I think Gizmo said get the M9... Beretta 92 for us regular folk. If I were going to do something that weren't supposed to do, then I guess I'd use the same thing the military does... Beretta 92 FS.
Be careful; and since nobody will know that he's armed, tell him to take out Bin-Laden, and Sadam while he's at it. (sorry for the spellings)
Ben
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AOL IM: BenK911
ICQ # 53788523
"Gun Control Is Being Able To Hit Your Target"
Be careful; and since nobody will know that he's armed, tell him to take out Bin-Laden, and Sadam while he's at it. (sorry for the spellings)
Ben
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AOL IM: BenK911
ICQ # 53788523
"Gun Control Is Being Able To Hit Your Target"
Well 18908148, if your buddy won't listen to reason: have him get the Beretta M92 Type M. It is the single stack version of the full size M92. Shorter in the grip by about a half inch, shorter in the barrel by about a half inch, too. I have handled one and it is pretty slick. He can shoot the same 9mm ammo as issued by Uncle Sam. When he gets caught with the gun by his superiors maybe he can WOW them with how cool it is and they will only give him an Article 15 as opposed to a Courts Martial. On the other hand, since it looks so much like the Army issue maybe they won't even notice.
On the other hand, since it looks so much like the Army issue maybe they won't even notice.I’m in no way condoning or abetting your friend’s decision but since he won't listen to reason and is bent on violating the law he should consider a small easily hidden piece. He would be smart to consider something that can be obtained locally to potentially ward off heavy punishment with a "I didn't know and I bought it here from some drunk" type story. One of my friends was in Bosnia in 1997 and he told me there were used Bulgarian, E German and Russian Makaravos and FEGs (Walther type) chambered for the 9mm MAK all over the place, readily available and cheaply priced. Perhaps one of these pistols, bought used to strengthen the rouse, would serve him better than say a non-issue Beretta 92FS, SIG Sauer or other pistol that has been clearly brought in. Makarovs can be gotten used for about $120, unless it’s E German as these go for much more. I’ve seen FEG PA-63s go for about $120 used.
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So many pistols, so little money.
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So many pistols, so little money.
Go to Bosnia. Buy a CZ-99. This is an extremely high quality Serbian manufactured (state arsenals) 9mm clone of the SIG 226 (or is it the 22?...I'm not a SIG nut). In any event, it is the mid-size version with double column magazine. Calibers available in B-H are Warsaw Pact, Former Yugoslavia, and what can be found in Western Europe (9mm Para, 9mm Mak, .32 ACP, 7.65mm, 7.62, etc.). 9mm is considered the "big" caliber. Most of the serious mafia in B-H go w/ CZ-99, Walthers, etc. Good luck finding .45 ACP! If yer friend ain't been to Bosnia lately: If he is in the US Army, he will essentially be living a prison-like existence at one of the firebases and has no hope of packin' private heat. You can take it to the bank! If he really wants life insurance, take a defensive driving course (traffic accidents are the number one killer of US troops... followed by M9/M16 ADs). If he is assigned a job requiring concealed carry of a handgun, he already knows what his unit is using and doesn't need to ask the question.
Bosnia? Were it Kosovo I'd tell him to be a bit concerned. What's to do in Bosnia, plink at rocks? There are sufficient weapons available locally, such that he needn't risk a felony court-martial from smuggling weapons. He isn't going there to fight a war, or even a police action. Tell him to talk to his OPS NCO and get the straight scoop.
I better choice for him would be to bring hollow point 9 mmm ammo instead of a sidearm. If busted, his life will be utter hell and WILL NEVER BE ALLOWED to own another firearm.
However, if he's willing to take the risk, a .45. He'll be hard press to find supplies for it.
I see no reason why he needs to fear Bosnia. Espeically if he's going to be stationed in In 1993, I was at Sarajevo with the Rangers. Then it was a hot zone. Even US RANGERS used M16A2's and M9's. We did have MP5's and Saws and M60's and blah...
Tell your buddy to take a .45 ACP He better be ready to suffer the consequences. Sounds like a Private or Specialist having these thoughts....
Here are two pics. One is of me and the other is what he'll see there.
However, if he's willing to take the risk, a .45. He'll be hard press to find supplies for it.
I see no reason why he needs to fear Bosnia. Espeically if he's going to be stationed in In 1993, I was at Sarajevo with the Rangers. Then it was a hot zone. Even US RANGERS used M16A2's and M9's. We did have MP5's and Saws and M60's and blah...
Tell your buddy to take a .45 ACP He better be ready to suffer the consequences. Sounds like a Private or Specialist having these thoughts....
Here are two pics. One is of me and the other is what he'll see there.
Well I know you don't want to hear any freindly advice that is NORMAL for this forum, but I have actual experience with this very matter. We were deployed to Haiti, we were the first set of troops going in from the 10th Mountain Div. and my roommate decided he would take his new toy since we were supposed to be going into a very hostile environment. I think it was a Glock but we were FO's with the Infantry and were never issued anything other than an M16A2. Well our infantry CSM walked by him as he was getting into bed and saw his gun. He asked my freind a few questions about it and soon discovered it was not Army issue. Somehow he got out of Haiti with absolutely NO punishment. I never knew why they didn't do anything to him except I guess the unit didn't want to have any bad press so early in the deployment. I doubt this would happen in today's political climate in the military.
AF Shooter
New member
18908148:
If your friend is a civilian, I say take a 9mm as ammo will be avaliable.
If your friend is military, this is a bad, bad idea. Chances are high that he'll get caught. If caught, he WILL face a court martial. The officers, and in most cases the command NCO's in todays military have ZERO since of houmor about stuff like this. Maybe he hasn't been in long enough to figure that out, but this would be a hard way to learn that leasson. If your friend needs a weapon, it will be issued to him. If he's working in a rear area postion and is not issued a weapon, one should become avaliable in short order if the SHTF. If he feels the need to carry a gun to protect himself from the locals when he goes shopping downtown, tell him to think about it. We do not have a SOFA agreement with Bosnia. He could be held for trial by the local government if he fires his weapon. Through 2 wars and 5 other deployments to hot spots round the world I've carried a folding knife and a 3 cell Mag-Lite when traveling or shopping away from the base. If I ever feel the need to carry more than that when off-duty, I don't go downtown. Simple as that.
Morgan:
No, we are not signators to the Geneva Conventions, however, we do follow the international Laws OF Armed Conflict (LOAC) and established rules of engagement. Both state that ball ammo is required. In certain special cases Military LEO's are allowed to carry hollow-points in the sidearm only. Never in the service rifle. In 14 years of USAF service, I've never been issued HP ammo. The only guys in the LEO carrer-field I know who have been issued HP ammo worked embassy duty.
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Tom Whitman
SSgt, USAF
If your friend is a civilian, I say take a 9mm as ammo will be avaliable.
If your friend is military, this is a bad, bad idea. Chances are high that he'll get caught. If caught, he WILL face a court martial. The officers, and in most cases the command NCO's in todays military have ZERO since of houmor about stuff like this. Maybe he hasn't been in long enough to figure that out, but this would be a hard way to learn that leasson. If your friend needs a weapon, it will be issued to him. If he's working in a rear area postion and is not issued a weapon, one should become avaliable in short order if the SHTF. If he feels the need to carry a gun to protect himself from the locals when he goes shopping downtown, tell him to think about it. We do not have a SOFA agreement with Bosnia. He could be held for trial by the local government if he fires his weapon. Through 2 wars and 5 other deployments to hot spots round the world I've carried a folding knife and a 3 cell Mag-Lite when traveling or shopping away from the base. If I ever feel the need to carry more than that when off-duty, I don't go downtown. Simple as that.
Morgan:
No, we are not signators to the Geneva Conventions, however, we do follow the international Laws OF Armed Conflict (LOAC) and established rules of engagement. Both state that ball ammo is required. In certain special cases Military LEO's are allowed to carry hollow-points in the sidearm only. Never in the service rifle. In 14 years of USAF service, I've never been issued HP ammo. The only guys in the LEO carrer-field I know who have been issued HP ammo worked embassy duty.
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Tom Whitman
SSgt, USAF