Found something yesterday...

[dstryr]

My father's uncles passed away in early '04 and the farm sale was in September of '04. After everything was cleared out, Dad bought one farm and yesterday in the virtually empty hay mow I found a couple of small cardboard boxes with some old newspapers, automobile magazines from 1952-1954, a couple of maps from 1951 where they apparently went to Canada to fish, and this:

An Acme No. 15 powder measure in oz. and drams, primer tool, a couple of tins of primers, and a bottle of powder.

I imagine this could have sat undisturbed for maybe 40 years or more based on the ages my great-uncles were and the magazines. I spent time out there when I was a kid and do not ever remember them using or going into the hay mow. They probably hadn't reloaded since the 50's, but will check with one of Dad's cousins who would remember.

The tins are labelled

PATENT PERCUSSION PRIMERS FOR METALLIC CARTRIDGES
UNION METALLIC CARTRIDGE CO. BRIDGEPORT, CT
CENTRAL FIRE
UNDER ACCESS PATENT
SEPTEMBER 14, 1869


Ballpark age on some of this stuff??

Thanks!

 

[dstryr]

Sorry about the pic quality, I don't have my good camera with me this weekend.

Here's a pic of a primer tin. The logo has a dog's head, only found one pic on the net related to an ebay ad:

 

[Jim Watson]

Interesting they saved fired primers.

I don't know the age, but 1904 does not seem out of line.

 

[James K]

That tong tool looks like a remover for Berdan primers. The "spike" thing digs into the primer so it can be pulled out rather than being pushed out as with boxer primers. The other screw is the primer seater.

Jim

 

[dstryr]

The primers are not fired, they have what looks like a drop of solder inside them so in the pic, the dark brass is the top/cap of the primer, inside is shiny like solder. They're also larger than a current 12ga primer, comparing a trap load shell to one of these old primers. The tool fits a 12ga shell.

I talked to Dad's cousin, he can not remember any of them reloading when he was a kid, early 1940s.

Thanks for the replies.

 

[James K]

Those are percussion caps, not primers for metallic cartridges. What looks like a drop of solder is tinfoil put in to waterproof the cap.

The measure could be used with either powder or shot, and the other tool looks like a load starter for a muzzle loading shotgun. (The wad and shot were loaded, then the load started until it was past the muzzle and the ramrod could be used.)

Jim

 

[Mike Irwin]

Dstryr's tin (the fuzzy picture) says "Primers for Metallic Cartridges."

They are not percussion caps, nor do they look like percussion caps.

My guess is that they are primers for brass shotshells given the other equipment that is there.

They date from before 1912, which is when Remington and UMC were combined.

The pliars type device appears to be for either capping or decapping shotshells.

The wooden dowel with the knob on the end is a tamper used for seating card wads in the shells.

There are a number of parts of the reloading set up that are missing.

Is there anything stamped or otherwise lettered on the capping tool?

 

[Mike Irwin]

OK, I think this page better illustrates the kind of primers that dstryr has:

http://www.soldusa.com/rainworx/detail.asp?id=42730

Judging by what I've seen, that's a pretty early primer tin -- probably from the late 1870s or the early 1880s.

Lastly, those primers are, if they are identical to the ones shown in the link I provided at the top of this message, Berdan primers.

Most metallic shotshells manufactured in the United States prior to World War I were Berdan primed.

 

[James K]

Correct, Mike, my error. But I think we may be getting there. Those primers are not conventional Boxer primers as they have no anvils. Now, I have some brass shotshells with Berdan type priming. If they were reloading those, that would explain the primers for metallic cartridges and also what looks like a decapper for Berdan primers.

(Of course we seem to be sort of assuming all the stuff is for one cartridge/shell, when they might be for separate cartridges and separate guns.)

Jim

 

[Mike Irwin]

My Ideal Catalog No. 26 (post 1907, pre 1920) shows a number of tools similar to the ones shown in the pictures.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that they are related.

Regarding the catalog, I believe it's actually between 1907 (introducing date for the .44 S&W Special) and 1912 (the date that Remington and UMC joined), as the .44 Special is listed, while the UMC and Remington ads indicate that they are separate and independent.

Interestingly, there's also an ad in the back for Maxim silencers.

Nice.

 

[James K]

I'm working on the time machine. After I get done buying up all that old junk in Paterson, NJ, you can have a crack at the silencers.

Jim

 

[dstryr]

Guys, thanks for the info; I can only wonder how long this sat considering all the other stuff they collected was safely stashed or stored.

Here are a few more clear pics...


Wadding at the bottom of the box, these were the last that were in one piece. 9/16"dia. What is between the paper discs? Cork? Most has turned to powder.

A 12ga trap load fit, but the tool says 10, assume 10ga.

The tool is stamped with what appears to be

PAT AIR L CIH 107

Please let me know what is really says, if you know...

 

[Mike Irwin]

My guess is that the wads are a wood fiber between card stock. It could be ground cork, but it doesn't look like ground cork to me.

You know, it could be felt. That was a common wad material at the time.

OK, I think my Ideal 26 is post 1912, because I just found references to "Remington-UMC" primers.

Just found a Du Pont ad in the back that's dated 1916.

 

[Ol' Nick]

PAT AIR L CIH 107

Could this be the patent number for the tool

 

[Mike40-11]

Very interesting. Everything looks like black powder shotgun loading equipment. Powder measure in drams. Berdan capper/decapper appears to be E. Remington Sons Pat. date 1875. UMC primers are from before 1912 so there's your date bracket.

Actually, the only thing that seems to be missing is the roll crimper.

 

[Mike Irwin]

Looks like the patent date stamped on the wood handle in the one that Mike40 shows is April 6th 1875, so I would say that you have a Remington depriming/priming tool that has lost its wooden bottom handle.