Found rifle marked 250AI
- Thread starter 101guns
- Start date
Yeah, but...
You shoot normal .250 Savage ammo in a .250 Ackley Improved chamber to fireform it. They still headspace on the neck/shoulder junction, so even with the minimal case taper and sharper shoulder, you're ok.
That was the beauty of the Improved wildcat - you could still shoot normal ammo in it, and when you were done, your newly-formed Improved cases were ready to reload. In a pinch, if you were out hunting/varminting/etc, and forgot your wildcat handloads, you could use store-bought ammo.
You shoot normal .250 Savage ammo in a .250 Ackley Improved chamber to fireform it. They still headspace on the neck/shoulder junction, so even with the minimal case taper and sharper shoulder, you're ok.
That was the beauty of the Improved wildcat - you could still shoot normal ammo in it, and when you were done, your newly-formed Improved cases were ready to reload. In a pinch, if you were out hunting/varminting/etc, and forgot your wildcat handloads, you could use store-bought ammo.
Magnum Wheel Man
New member
without looking it up, I'd guess the shoulders are blown forward & at a steeper angle... probably firing regular cartridges ( if they'll fire... shoulder not moved too far forward to keep the firing pin from striking the primer ), then they'll most likely fire form for the improved case... however your velocity & resulting accuracy firing the "regular" cartridges will be erratic...
ooops... '98 beat me to it...
ooops... '98 beat me to it...
fisherman66
New member
As already pointed out, there is no danger from shooting 250 factory fodder. You might be disappointed by the results due to wide fluctuations in velocity due to the expanding brass not starting with a uniform thickness or hardness.
FrankenMauser
New member
Factory ammo will be just fine if it is a true AI chamber. Your best bet would be to have a gunsmith take a chamber cast. (or use a .250 Savage headspace guage)
One thing about wildcats that always makes me laugh.... The "fire forming curse". It seems that about 20% of the time, a rifle will be amazingly accurate during fire forming; but then fail to ever settle on an acceptable load with formed brass. If you dig around the forums on http://www.saubier.com/forum/index.php, you'll find a few examples where the rifle owners are only shooting fire forming loads, then selling their brass for other members to use.
One thing about wildcats that always makes me laugh.... The "fire forming curse". It seems that about 20% of the time, a rifle will be amazingly accurate during fire forming; but then fail to ever settle on an acceptable load with formed brass. If you dig around the forums on http://www.saubier.com/forum/index.php, you'll find a few examples where the rifle owners are only shooting fire forming loads, then selling their brass for other members to use.
73-Captain
Moderator
.250AI
As "FrankenMauser" said, "Factory ammo will be just fine if it is a true AI chamber."
The .250 AI is a great cartridge.
I know this will make those that think the .243 is everyones answer for everything upset but the .250 AI is SO GOOD and SO SUPERIOR that Winchester should have brought out this cartridge instead.
If Winchester had done that it is unlikely would be any US .24 calibers / 6mm's.
C.
As "FrankenMauser" said, "Factory ammo will be just fine if it is a true AI chamber."
The .250 AI is a great cartridge.
I know this will make those that think the .243 is everyones answer for everything upset but the .250 AI is SO GOOD and SO SUPERIOR that Winchester should have brought out this cartridge instead.
If Winchester had done that it is unlikely would be any US .24 calibers / 6mm's.
C.
fisherman66
New member
I think the plain jane 250-3000 is great without the shoulder changing AI. If more is needed the 257 Roberts works great in the same action. Of course we could AI that one and start to compete with the long action quarter. Same argument works for the 7s too with just a little more difficulty stuffing the short action.
If I happen upon a single shot 250 Savage for a fair price I'm snapping it up for my kiddo's first center-fire. The Lipsy #1 is attractive, but pricey. A converted #3 might be perfect if found abandoned in a pawn shop.
73-Captain
Moderator
.250AI
"If more is needed the 257 Roberts works great in the same action."
Not hardly, a .250 will work in shorter actions than the .257 Roberts.
C.
"If more is needed the 257 Roberts works great in the same action."
Not hardly, a .250 will work in shorter actions than the .257 Roberts.
C.
I have used a .257 ackley for many years.I right now have my Nosler loading manual open to the .250 sav cartridge drawing.The chamber cast idea is not bad.Who knows what you have!!
A regular .250 sav headspace gage is not likely to work,it has to do with where the datum is
By design,the AI headspaces a standard round at the junction of the neck and shoulder of a standard round.On the drawing,this is called out as a .289 dia.Upon fireforming,case taper will be reduced .The .414 dia will become larger.The shoulder angle will become steeper.That original headspace "ring " of .289 will not be blown forward.
It is inportant when fireforming that you don't crush this back by forcing a claw extracor to snap over it.feed up from the magazine.
If you handload,you are probably concious of the point where a seated bullet may contact the rifling.I use this to my advantage.The old 117 gr roundnose bullets are perfect for this,but any 117-120 hunting bullet will work.I long seat them so they contact the rifling,and then maybe .015 longer.I want the bullet jamming into the rifling to hold the case tight against the bolt face.
Pick a moderate load in the quicker spectrum of recommended powders.Do not subload.If you were using a 115 ballistic tip,I might use 29n gr of 4895 or 28 gr 3031,both IMR powder,as shown in the 5th edition Nosler book.
At firing,the case volume will increase,and the bullet is seated longer than spec.Both will reduce chamber peak pressure.
Now,it is unlikely these will match your sight in.They may be very accurate.
You sure can practice your position shooting for group size.A nice group shot sitting does not have to be centered on the point of aim to be a nice group,or good shooting practice.(No need to twist the knobs)
When you are finished,so long as you do not set the shoulder back when you resize,the cases will last a very long time.Precise headspacing is one advantage of the AI case.Use the bent paper clip trick to check for an internal stretch ring once in a while.I suspect you will lose your cases to neck splitting about reload 8-10.
Sweet cartridge! Oh,check your twist for an idea what bullets will work well.A 1-10 for 115 to 120 grs,or maybe if it is a 1-14 you will use lighter bullets.
A regular .250 sav headspace gage is not likely to work,it has to do with where the datum is
By design,the AI headspaces a standard round at the junction of the neck and shoulder of a standard round.On the drawing,this is called out as a .289 dia.Upon fireforming,case taper will be reduced .The .414 dia will become larger.The shoulder angle will become steeper.That original headspace "ring " of .289 will not be blown forward.
It is inportant when fireforming that you don't crush this back by forcing a claw extracor to snap over it.feed up from the magazine.
If you handload,you are probably concious of the point where a seated bullet may contact the rifling.I use this to my advantage.The old 117 gr roundnose bullets are perfect for this,but any 117-120 hunting bullet will work.I long seat them so they contact the rifling,and then maybe .015 longer.I want the bullet jamming into the rifling to hold the case tight against the bolt face.
Pick a moderate load in the quicker spectrum of recommended powders.Do not subload.If you were using a 115 ballistic tip,I might use 29n gr of 4895 or 28 gr 3031,both IMR powder,as shown in the 5th edition Nosler book.
At firing,the case volume will increase,and the bullet is seated longer than spec.Both will reduce chamber peak pressure.
Now,it is unlikely these will match your sight in.They may be very accurate.
You sure can practice your position shooting for group size.A nice group shot sitting does not have to be centered on the point of aim to be a nice group,or good shooting practice.(No need to twist the knobs)
When you are finished,so long as you do not set the shoulder back when you resize,the cases will last a very long time.Precise headspacing is one advantage of the AI case.Use the bent paper clip trick to check for an internal stretch ring once in a while.I suspect you will lose your cases to neck splitting about reload 8-10.
Sweet cartridge! Oh,check your twist for an idea what bullets will work well.A 1-10 for 115 to 120 grs,or maybe if it is a 1-14 you will use lighter bullets.
fisherman66
New member
I'm referring to short actions vs. long actions (read bolt); ie. both will fit into a short action bolt receiver. If you really want to get uptight about it, one can squeeze almost all cartridges into the same tiny sized action if one is willing to have a capacity of one shot.