Florida's "shoot first" law -- WHEN will the carnage end?!!

[Garand Illusion]

/rant on

Although for some reason the media isn't reporting it, there obviously must be thousands of Floridians needlessly murdered LEGALLY by drunks, children, bully's, etc. Does anyone have any statistics on that?

Clearly it must be happening, or else http://www.shootfirstlaw.org/ would not still be around after all these months. What kind of organization would continue to fight a law based on scenarios that didn't happen?

I was just giving a read to the ridiculous docs athttp://www.shootfirstlaw.org/pdf/backgrounder.pdf. Just a few pointers on how twisted the logic is in this document.

Imagine, if you will, the times in your life when you’ve been afraid of another human being: A motorist who threatened you on the highway, a group of teenagers who threatened you on a street corner, a homeless man who harassed you and called you names for refusing to give him spare change, a drunk in a bar who tries to pick a fight.

Now imagine that you killed all those people. Imagine that everyone killed all the people that ever gave them a nervous adrenalin rush.

Welcome to Florida starting October 1, 2005, and Michigan in the near future if the National Rifle Association has its way.

From the way these situations are outlined, none of them would necessary fall under the standard of the law, which even they admit is:

The new Florida Shoot First law eliminates the duty to retreat and allows a person not engaged in unlawful activity who is attacked in a public place to "stand his or her ground" and use deadly force if "he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or to another person or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."

Which of the scenarios would cause you to believe you were in danger of death or great bodily harm? Name calling? A drunk trying (but failing) to pick a fight? How are the teenagers threatening? Waving knives or just making snide remarks?

Here's another delightfully logical quote:

“The law isn't age specific, it's not intent-specific," Harmon said. "Can a sixth-grader retaliate against a bully? If you're in a bar and you've been drinking, maybe you think you've been threatened, but what about your judgment in those cases? I just think the citizenry could misinterpret this law.”

To use physical force, you have to be engaged in a legal activity. Can a sixth grader legally carry a firearm in Florida? If you've been drinking in a bar and have a gun, aren't you now illegal? Seems like any of the situations above would be obviously not covered as a legal shooting under any law.

Still some more logic ...

Under the "Shoot First" law, as long as the shooter "is not engaged in unlawful activity" and is "attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be" the shooter has the right to use deadly force. Therefore, if a fistfight escalates to lethal violence, the shooter could receive immunity under the law even if he initiated the confrontation, as long as he "reasonably believed" that firing the gun was necessary to prevent a "forcible felony" or "great bodily harm" to himself.

So ... if you assault someone (initiating a confrontation that becomes a fistfight) kinda sounds like you ARE engaged in an unlawful activity and therefore not covered by the law? Sound right to y'all? Now if someone else initiates a fistfight and is clearly intending to do you serious harm ... that should be a good shoot in anybody's book.

Unless you just really don't think average citizens should protect themselves.

I could go on and on. But just one last ridiculous quote ...

Detroit Free Press columnist Nichole Christian wrote: “You have to wonder whether the Florida Legislature has lost its mind… What a nightmare Florida could have on its hands after empowering victims of road rage, robbery or domestic disputes to make instant life-and-death decisions. It's the sort of insanity that makes one cherish the miles separating us from them. Write that off as Florida's problem, if you want. But be forewarned: The NRA is already eyeing other states for similar efforts.”

Sounds pretty scary, huh? So what is the death toll from this heinous law so far?

I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but I was reading this site for a few chuckles and it made me mad. Had to vent somewhere.

How can they make bold and scary statements and then invalidate the statement with their OWN text and NOT EVEN RECOGNIZE IT!!

I know, understand and respect people who are anti-gun. But none of them would resort to these boldfaced lies (at least if they thought about it).

Not that a few people on our side don't try to twist a few things as well ... but I don't think I've ever seen a pro-gun document that obvious!

/rant off

 

[IndianaDean]

If they really want to ban dangerous weapons that kill the most folks every year, motor vehicles need to be banned immediately.

 

[#18indycolts]

Dean-to add to it, ban cell phones in cars...i've been on too many 10-50's with that being a factor.

 

[Low Key]

Tennessee has the same "no retreat" law as florida, you can find the info at packing.org if you are interested. Why don't you hear about it in the news? The liberals don't have a political agenda in Tn with regards to the president, aka Jeb Bush is not governor in TN. Thousands dying in the streets from rampant shootings here in TN? None that I have heard about, wonder what that means about the no retreat law?
I know I'm being very sarcastic with those last two statement/questions, couldn't help myself. I totally agree with the no retreat laws. We should have the right to defend ourselves from the BG wherever we may happen to be.

 

[Mike Irwin]

I hope it keeps going at the high pace it is so that property values start to plummet from all the homes on the market.

 

[FirstFreedom]

I'm sure the 2010 census will show Fla's population to be half what it was in '00, due to the daily shootouts over parking spaces there. But you're right - for some reason the media is not reporting it.

 

[joab]

I have to drive through the tourist corridor daily to and from work.
Not a day goes by that some confused tourist doesn't drive 30 in the fast lane or stop short to merge across three lanes of traffic because he almost missed his turn off.

Invariably there will be some sort of conrontation ending with the visitor getting mowed down by one of the Uzis or AKs that began flooding our streets last October.

This is most definitely a cover up by the right wing media

 

[Supertac]

Well, I'm on vacation in Melbourne, Florida right now. I feel much safer here than in California. I don't have a gun with me, but I know that MANY good people around me are packing.

No mass killings of gun toting crazies yet.....we'll see....

 

[deanf]

Imagine, if you will, the times in your life when you’ve been afraid of another human being: A motorist who threatened you on the highway, a group of teenagers who threatened you on a street corner, a homeless man who harassed you and called you names for refusing to give him spare change, a drunk in a bar who tries to pick a fight.

I really have no use for people who are scared of their own shadow. Whoever wrote that obviously is. Why would any able-bodied person be scared in those situations?

 

[azurefly]

The examples of situations given at the thread start (by the anti-gun site authors as quoted) are proof that the mindless idiots there can't think logically by any reasonable standard.

Like Garand Illusion said, the law covers those situations. You would be illegal if you had your gun with you at the bar fight, so the No-Retreat law would not be a shield for you. Likewise if you initiated a confrontation with someone else -- YOU are the aggressor, and the law does not provide a shield for you then.

It's amazing that they try to use scare tactics by saying that it's Florida's problem, but you'd better be concerned because the NRA is planning to push this kind of law into other states.

It IS in other states. Lots of them. And it's a non-issue. It is NOT resulting in a bloodbath.

These morons would know that if their agenda was driven by facts, rather than by emotion at the expense of facts.

-azurefly

 

[USP45usp]

Wait a dang minute here!

I thought that blood would be flowing in the street in 1987 (and I was there at the time, fresh out of high school) when they allowed concealed carry... it's been almost 20 years now, how can even more blood be flowing through the streets? Everyone should be dead by now!

That and all the ak's/uzi's/etc.. that supposed to be flowing through the streets now.

Wayne