Flintlocks and Flinches

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kraigwy

New member
I'm not an expert on muzzle loading, but have played them for a bit.

I have a couple 36 cal. cap and ball revolvers and found they can be fun little rabbit guns.

Shot a bit of Black Powder Cartridge rifles, got bored and bought an Inline muzzle loader a few years back. In reality BPCRs and percussion cap muzzle loaders aren't a whole lot different then shooting center fire rifles (except for the smoke that makes it hard to see if you hit steel gongs.

So a few weeks back I decided to go traditional and got a Flint Lock. I admit this is going to be a fun hobby.

Problem is, I'm not use to a flash going off in my face when I pull the trigger. I cant help flinching. my better half loves watching me shoot the Flintlock so she can laugh at my flinching every time I pull the trigger.

Just how many rounds does one have to shoot before the flinching stops.

Its akin to putting a rattlesnake in a glass jar and trying to keep your hand on the jar while the snake strikes. You know the snake cant get you but its still difficult to hold your hand there.

These suckers and been around forever, and some excellent shooting has been done with them. There has to be a trick.
 
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Wyosmith

New member
I can answer this.
I make them for a living and I too had to get over the flinches.
When I was a young man and even a middle aged man I was well knows for my abilities as a marksman, but when I started shooting flintlocks I had to "re-learn" it all over. We all know the importance of follow through in shooting well but it goes to an entire new level when shooting a flinch-lock,,,,,,,,,,,,oh,,,,,,,,,,,,,I mean flintlock.

The best way to get over the flinchies with a flinter is to "dry fire" but you do so with a flint in the jaws and powder in the pan so you get a flash every time. The flinch is a subconscious reaction and we have to train our subconscious to understand it is not going to harm us. Logical explanation is 100% irrelevant. So flashing the pan when practicing the dry fire will do just that.

It takes a lot of flashes too. Probably about 1/2 to 1 pound of power's worth.

But it works. You fight and fight and fight to overcome them, and then one day---- literally in 1 minutes ----they just vanish. It's when your subconscious accepts it as harmless.
After that it's no harder to shoot than any other iron sighted rifle. But for the time being you will feel like you are 8 years old again and learning to shoot for the 1st time. All your years of knowledge will not help you until your subconscious accepts the fact that the little explosion 3" in front of your face is harmless. I went through it and I know how frustrating it is. Going from being a man that is a force to contend with in the matches to being a man who seems to "fire a warning shot" ----------- every time!

Don't give up. It will come. And when it does it comes in just a few minutes.
 
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NoSecondBest

New member
You can cut WAY down on this problem by not putting too much powder in the pan. Almost all new flintlock shooters put about three times the amount of powder needed in the pan when they start (I did also). You only need enough to make a flash into the vent hole to ignite the powder. Try cutting way down on the powder and you'll be surprised how much of the delay disappears and how well the powder still ignites. By trial and error you'll find out how much is needed to get reliable ignition.....it's a lot less than you think. Also, the ignition becomes almost as fast as a cap lock.
 
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Model12Win

Moderator
Go traditional huh?

Just how in the hell is a percussion cap rifle not traditional?

More flintlock elitism. They act like percussion rifles are a new invention. They've been available widely since the 1830s.
 
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B.L.E.

New member
If a flintlock is loaded correctly, it'll go off so fast you won't have time to react to the flash. Use real black powder for the main charge, don't overprime, not only does that make a bigger flash, but it also slows the ignition when the fire has to burn through the pile of powder before it reaches the touch hole. You do not want the touch hole covered with powder nor do you want the touch hole filled with powder which acts as a fuse slowing ignition.
If you just have to use Triple 7 or Pyrodex in a flintlock, dump a five grain igniter charge of real black powder down the bore first.

I loaned a flintlock newbie who was using Triple 7 in his flintlock some real black powder to try in his gun and he couldn't believe the difference it made. He thought flinters were SUPPOSED to go off with a big time delay.
 
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kraigwy

New member
You can cut WAY down on this problem by not putting too much powder in the pan. Almost all new flintlock shooters put about three times the amount of powder needed in the pan when they start (I did also). You only need enough to make a flash into the vent hole to ignite the powder. Try cutting way down on the powder and you'll be surprised how much of the delay disappears and how well the powder still ignites. By trial and error you'll find out how much is needed to get reliable ignition.....it's a lot less than you think. Also, the ignition becomes almost as fast as a cap lock.
Click to expand...

Thanks NOSecondChance. Heard that before and makes perfect sense. I probably do over fill the flash pan. I guess the "More The Better" theory doesn't apply here.

Gary the fire and smoke blocks out the front sight, I thought that was suppose to be the fun of flint locks.

Guess there is a difference between SMOKE AND FIRE and Precision Shooting.
 
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4V50 Gary

Staff
Kraig - I'm left handed, left eye dominant and shot right handed flintlocks with no issue at all. Of course the front sight disappears as does everything else when the plume of white smoke fills the air. Still, while I'm aiming, all I concentrate on is the front sight.
 
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ligonierbill

New member
I think wyosmith pretty much answered the question, but I have to ask, who made your lock? My rocklocks are from Jim Chambers, and they are pretty fast. My front sight is not obscured by smoke before the ball is on its way. Not that I'm a Simon Kenton marksman, but a good, well tuned flintlock should be awful close to a caplock. Of course, though we're talking milliseconds, they are all slower than a good modern rifle.

I bought some components from the late Bob Baxter some years ago (need to finish that gun!), and he had a target in his shop that had 5 shots in under 2", probably an inch and a half. Notes on the target said it was shot offhand at 75 yd. "You know what's most impressive about that?", he asked. "That got second place."
 
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bamaranger

New member
4F

Be sure and use 4F in the pan, and just a wee bit. The flash will detonate the main charge faster than a slower, full pan, burn to ignition, overfill. I have ground down 3F using a shot glass and a brass pedestal, BUT dorking with BP is NOT really recommended by any source except us risk takers on line.

Avoid any BP substitute in a fllintlock, and I don't really like it in a caplock either.
 
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B.L.E.

New member
Here's a video showing just how fast a properly set up and loaded flintlock can go off. It's so fast that the ball has already left the barrel by the time you can react to the flash.
Of course, if you flinch in anticipation of pulling the trigger, you'll still miss, but that's a problem with modern guns too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H4chpPy1mE
 
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Jbar4Ranch

New member
As B.L.E. stated, a proper lock, properly tuned, with a decent English flint, the correct powders, and properly primed will have a lock time that is virtually indistinguishable from a percussion lock. There will be no "click -- pffft -- boom", just a "boom". There are several sites online that explain how to tune the lock geometry, and one of them states something to the effect of, "You'll know you have it right when the rifle will reliably and consistently fire upside down".
 
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Seamus Mc

New member
An old timer once told me that elder fellows who wore bifocals had an advantage with flintlocks over the younger set. He wore shooting glasses that were not bifocal. He was able to see the sights ok but the sparks and smoke in the pan were nearly invisible to his aged eyes so he never flinched. That was his story anyway! :)
 
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Road_Clam

New member
This is an outstanding thread, thanks to all. I too am a new flinchlock shooter. Over the past year I've purchased a Pennsylvania .50 , and a Harpers Ferry .58 pistol both flinters. The Penn is a Traditions model with a poor breech design , and i'm struggling to obtain consistent ignitions. Even through all my frustrations flintlocks are really fun to shoot ! An antique era of firearms every shooter should experience. Nuthin' like that pleasing Sulphur type smell of Goex BP !
 
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reinert

New member
After you've considered everything that seems helpful in your quest to avoid the dreaded flinch throughout this thread, you may also want to consider this:

You'll need your "better half" to help you out on this one, and she'll probably enjoy another outing watching you shoot your flinter, especially when helping to set you up herself. Once you've properly loaded, let her prime the pan...or not. That old trick works for most any firearm.

You will quickly learn that with a flinter, follow-through on a shot is all the more, all important. There's nothing quite like taking an offhand shot when all is working as it should in a well-tuned lock, and your hold was rock-solid when the shot broke, and you know your follow through was spot on. Better still when that ball cart-wheels through the X-ring.
 
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