Flinch-Mind over matter!!!???

[fairview mick]

Over a long period of shooting, I have developed an almost incurable flinch. When I know that there is no round in the cylinder or magazine, I'm steady as a rock. I can do a perfect squeeze on the trigger with follow through, etc. If I take my 686 and randomly spin the cylinder when loading, perhaps with just two or three rounds and then fire, my mind will force me to jerk and slap the trigger to a point that sometimes I won't hit the paper at 50 feet Then other times I'll shoot a 99 or 100 out of 100. Does anyone know of an exercise that would possibly help me?
Mickey

 

[zamboxl]

yes load a dummy round or practice round into the magazine, put it in there in no particular order, so that when u get to it u wont know is there and u could work on the flinching thing.

 

[mete]

The best way is to start from square one .It's like a baseball plaayer who is in a slump. He picks up a bad habit without realizing it , does poorly, that in turn has psychological effect which makes it worse. Go back to the basics . Get a 22 and carefully practice all the basics.Standing, gripping ,sight picture etc. Concentrate on doing each thing perfectly, take your time.

 

[Lurper]

First, let's dispel the myth of "Flinching". Just because the barrel drops after you pull the trigger on an empty chamber does not mean you are flinching. It doesn't mean you are doing anything incorrectly. When you allow it to, your mind will strive to return the pistol to its original location. Your mind doesn't know the difference between a loaded gun or an unloaded gun. It reacts the same way. The problem arises when you move the barrel before you fire (really more of a timing issue).

To diagnose the problem, have a friend watch you as you shoot. Ask them to watch the end of the barrel as you fire. Have them try to find a refernce point for the barrel so they can tell if it has moved or not. Have them watch for movement BEFORE the round goes off. NOTE: They should do this standing next to you or looking over your shoulder NOT IN FRONT OF YOU!!!

I can guarantee that is where your problem lies. Also, look at where your groups are relative to your point of aim. Bring the target close enough that you can shoot a small enough group to diagnose. It doesn't have to be a tight group, 5-6" or more will work. If your hits are all over the place, you have more than one problem. Generally speaking, if you are shooting high you are probably "heeling" the gun. Low and you are "milking" it. Left or right is usually the result of the weak hand influencing the gun. Also, there is the "Gotcha". That is where you anticipate the shot. You have your sights aligned, grip perfect, you see the sights and "GOTCHA" , you jerk the trigger for all it's worth. This is more than likely what you are doing. To get over it try this:
First, point the pistol at the target. Close your eyes, concentrate on your trigger finger. Apply even pressure on the trigger while trying to actually feel it move every nm. This process can take as long as you want, the key is to apply even pressure (you press the trigger, not pull it). At some point the gun will discharge. That should be a surprise to you . If you can predict it then you are going too fast. Do that a few (4 or 5) times. Then open your eyes (don't worry about where your closed eye hits are [as long as noone is bleeding]), align your sights, focus on the front sight while pulling the trigger in the same manner you did with your eyes closed. Do that a few times and it should correct your problem. It has the added bonus of focusing your concentration.
Good luck

 

[MEDDAC19]

mick

You do not state whether you are flinching from recoil only. If you are not using good hearing protection at the range, your flinch may be from the report of the gun. Many people develop a flinch while shooting due to the pain caused by the loudness of the shot. I have seen many with a bad flinch eliminate it completely by wearing earplugs and earmuffs.

By stepping down to a .22 a flinch may go away because recoil has been taken out of the equation, but the report is also diminished. These shooters think that they have cured their flinch and see it reappear as soon as they step back up to the louder calibers.

Make sure you shoot with good hearing protection and don't forget the safety glasses. Good luck and good shooting.

 

[cochise]

Shoot a .22 at least 3 times a week for mininum of 6 months.

Focus on sight alignment and trigger control.

My ex out shoots most men with .45 or .44 mag. We didn't have money in our early married years and we got free ammo, .22 and .45. Our weekends were spent shooting just to have something to do.

Mental awareness of sight alignment and trigger control is what we were taught in the 1960's. I think it is true today.

 

[629 shooter]

"The best way is to start from square one .It's like a baseball player who is in a slump. He picks up a bad habit without realizing it , does poorly, that in turn has psychological effect which makes it worse. Go back to the basics . Get a 22 and carefully practice all the basics.Standing, gripping ,sight picture etc. Concentrate on doing each thing perfectly, take your time."

Yep , that is what I did with the exception of shooting 38 Special loads. Did not have a 22 pistol at the time. I started out with a 686 as my first handgun. The magnum rounds , even with good hearing protection , caused my bad habits to develop.

Like mete mentioned above I went back to the basics. The 38s were mild , little recoil and blast. After a few thousand rounds over several months my mindset had changed to where I was concentrating on sight alingment and trigger squeeze rather than: "Oh crap! Here it comes again! That damn blast! Better tighten my grip , brace myself!"

Then one day after all the weeks of 38 shooting I decided to load up a full cylinder of the 125 JHP 357s and finally all six shots were on the target into the black instead of a foot below the target all over the place!

 

[AirForceShooter]

+1 on the .22 idea

AFS

 

[j1132s]

Try mixing dummies and live rounds

Since you are using a revolver, you can have a friend load 3 or more empty cases into the revolver w/ live rounds w/o letting you know which rounds are live. Then just tell yourself that all rounds are dummies. (Note the friend can even load all empties.)

If you are by yourself, then it is hard to do w/ a revolver since you kind of know the sequence of live/dummy even after you spin the cylinder. In this case I don't know how you can do it faster except load half dummy and half live then spin and shoot just 1 round and respin the cylinder.

 

[Anthony2]

Thanks for the posts

I learned to shoot on a 12 ga. and have developed a flinch myself. Although I don't notice it after the first few shots. Hopefully these posts will remove my flinch entirely.

Kind Regards,

 

[ZenBudha]

As a Marine Sgt. Maj. who was teaching me to shoot said "The shot should suprise you."

Gotta take your mind off the trigger, and focus on the target. Flinching usually comes from predicting when the gun will go off.

 

[fairview mick]

Every message was great

Thanks so much for all you that wrote to help me. There are many good ideas that I haven't tried. I'll work on them and let you know how I do. Thanks again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Socrates]

Follow through!!! As you pull the trigger, imagine the gun pointing, and going, straight at the target. Concentrate on the target, and maintaining the front site on the target, as you pull the trigger, and, AFTER you pull the trigger...

S

 

[deadin]

It's really bad when you know the gun is empty and still flinch!
I used to have this problem after 30 or so rounds of full bore 44 mag in a Super Blackhawk. I changed to a M29 and the problem went away, so it was recoil related and grip "actuated". I never could get used to the spade grips on the SB.
Good suggestions all above. In addition,another drill is lots and lots of dry firing. Dry fire until until you don't have to think about holding steady and then add ammo and don't think about it.

Dean

 

[Harley Quinn]

Some never totally get over it.

The thing is you need to go back to basics and shoot something that will not allow you to flinch. Intermediate gun, the 22 cal is to light and you will never get past the moment.

Get a nice heavy pistol or revolver and practice with some light loads and build up. My thoughts, because of the natural act it has to be in your head so you have to over come that flinch. Nerves etc.

The 38 is perfect you can shoot some light rounds single or double action.
Just squeeze and don't anticipate. Revolver is the way to beat it. A good older S&W Mdl 4" with a bull barrel.

One shot at a time, pick it up, shoot and then put it down, do it again and again. Methodically load the gun and put it so the bullet will come up on the shot and practice it. You can try once in a while to trick your self but it is a trick and it just show you that you need to work on it.

SO.


Start doing some squeezing exercises with a soft ball. Do both hands and use a dumb bell to strengthen up your forearms.

Wear double hearing aid protectors and safty glasses. Go some where by your self and practice Zen shooting. If you don't know about that you will have to read up on it. You are forcing with your own energy (don't laugh) to overcome this problem.

Good luck it is tough to get through it, but when you do you will be a better shot. The Bull barrels help, do it just like I have told you.

Others have mentioned good things also, concentrate. That is the zen part.
HQ

 

[Socrates]

One thing I forgot to mention. Shooting a revolver without a round in each cylinder gives the recoil an uneven push back against the frame, and will eventually screw up your gun, stretching it, and making the frame bend.
This of course, varies with the power of the round, and, the quality of the gun, but, it will, and does happen.

Empty rounds still provide the head spacing, and an even distribution of force against your frame.

As for the flinch, I find if I've had too much coffee, or I'm nervous, certain days my hands aren't as steady as they used to be. On those days, I either go home, or I try and shoot through it. I concentrate on getting a good site picture, pulling the trigger, and following through AT the target, and, try and be able to see the same site picture, after the trigger is pulled.

Two martial arts tricks I've used shooting:
One is visual a successful shot, as a moving picture in your mind, not thinking about the details. In other words, see a movie of you doing everything you are supposed to do, prior to actually doing it.

Second: RELAX!! Hold the gun like a birds egg, pull slowly, and try and catch the gun as it recoils. Start with light loads. I know this goes completely against what everyone teaches. Other famous gun guys take a death grip on the gun, and pull, and hold on. I don't. I pull the trigger, and let the gun recoil up. I'm good enough at this that I can pull it down for a second shot very quickly.

I developed the second technique shooting LOTS of 200 grain hollow points, out of a Detonics Combatmaster VI, with smooth wood grips. The loads were in the .451 Detonics mag range, read around 35-40K pressure, and, I couldn't hold on to the gun, hard, without it busting my wrists, real good. So I learned to take advantage of the fantastic trigger, pull lightly, and follow through, catching it on the way up. I've used this technique on .454's, with
360 grain bullets, at 1550 fps. Needless to say, at some levels, you can end up with a hammer in the forehead, so be careful.

Third: Shoot at 7 yards, and be happy. Somedays you aren't going to have, it, somedays you are. Heck, I've got a controlled flinch, but, I work my 22's in, and they tend to make me see what I'm doing with the flinch, so I can correct it. My usual bad shot is low left, pulling the trigger down, and left, not straight back, gun going straight forward...

s

 

[fairview mick]

Flinch help

Thanks again for all the suggestions. I just returned from the range. I used a lot of the suggestions that i though would apply. I think Socrates and Harley Quin helped me more than anything. A lot of concentration,(especially on the front sight). I've been a trap shooter for 50 years and you didn't dare look at the front sight while trap shooting. It's hard not to watch the target when bullseye shooting. Today I think I'm on the right track. Shot 200 rounds of .22 with my Sig Trailside, and 100 from my 686 with light .38 target loads. At 40 feet, out of the 300 rounds fired, only 10 or so were in the 9 ring, the rest in the 10 and many in the X. I also had the range manager working with me, loading my pistol for me and when I did flinch, he definitely let All Shooters know about it.
Thanks again for the suggestions.
p/s If any one needs help with trap, I can do that!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Harley Quinn]

Fairview mick

You are welcome and keep up the good work
Isn't it funny the idea about the front sight and trap puts it in a different light.
The sights are important in one and not quite as important in the other.

I believe Socrates is right about the follow through, it is important in both trap and pistol but slightly different.

Good luck.
HQ