Flat/Round Nose Cycling in Bolt Action Rifles

[jackstrawIII]

Hey all,

I'm considering developing a "short range" deer load using 150/170 grain flat/round nose bullets in a 308 bolt action rifle. Looking at using the Sierra Pro Hunter round or flat nose, specifically. Basically, I never shoot more than 150 yards and, at that distance, flat/round nose bullets definitely hit a bit harder.

Here's my question, will a flat nose bullet cycle reliably in a bolt action rifle, as long as I keep the cartridge length correct? If not, how about round nose?

Anyone actually loaded a round like this and can speak to the feeding reliability?

Thanks so much.

Ps. Please don't tell me to "just buy a 30-30". I have a handy little bolt action rifle I like, and want to stick with it. Thanks.

 

[bamaranger]

sure

I've done the very same thing when loading down a .308 for youth. Took .308 dia 150 gr FN bullets intended for the .30-30 and seated them in .308 cases with a reduced powder charge, to just slightly exceed 30-30 numbers velocity and energy wise. Worked fine. The family actually thought they killed a bit better than .308 Win w/ full power spitzers.

I can't recall what powder I used for that project, but I paid a bit of attention to case volume, choosing a powder that produced lower velocity, but still filled the case a reasonable amount. I also seated the bullets out a tad beyond the cannelure on the slugs, to get them a bit closer to .308 Win C.O.A.L. The flat nose slugs were pretty stubby, and had a big jump to the rifling if not seated out.

I gave some thought to developing a "woods load" for myself, using the 170 gr flat nose at slightly increased 30-30 velocity, say .300 Savage speeds, but never did.

Rifles being individual things, the project for that young man involved a REm 700, and we experienced no problems. I suppose your rifle might show a glitch, but I bet it works fine.

 

[kraigwy]

Not all guns are created equal. Some bolts will handle the flat nose bullets, some wont.

I know there were Model 54s and Model 70s chambered for the 30-30 and 25-35 rounds, the Winchesters I've seen worked, but I've see bolt guns that had problems with the 200 & 220 Round Nose 30 Cal bullets.

Only way to know for sure is to try them in your rifle.

 

[jackstrawIII]

Bamaranger, thanks, that's very helpful.

On a side note, I've done a fair amount of reloading, but am far from an "expert." What's the downside of loading a cartridge on the short side, leaving a gap between the bullet and the lands? I've heard people say you want to get as close as possible, but I've never heard an explanation of why. With loading a stubbier flat point bullet, I could see this being an issue.

 

[kraigwy]

Jack;

People like to load their rounds long (sticking farther out of the case) to give them less "jump" or movement before they enter the rifling to increase accuracy.

What happens is the force of the pressure slams the back of the bullet, pushing it forward. When you push a spiral object from the rear it tends to want to push the back of the object side ways, causing a wobble.

A wobbling object hitting the rifling isn't going to be as accurate and an object hitting them straight.

How much wobbling depends on the bullet and the throat of the chamber.

Again, you just have to try it to see what is the best over all length for your bullet and rifle.

 

[jackstrawIII]

kraigwy, that's an excellent explanation, makes perfect sense.

Thank you.

 

[Mosin-Marauder]

Something with CRF will definitely handle it, I'd imagine it'd be a mix when it came to push feeders.

 

[Guv]

I load a 165gr Speer round nose over 4064 in my URSAC M70 308 Lightweight and have never had a problem. Speer discontinued this particular bullet sometime back, too bad as is perfect in my 308. Although being a push feed you can turn the gun upside down and cycle a whole magazine full through it.

 

[bedlamite]

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=580103

 

[T. O'Heir]

Nearly all cartridges(8mm, .30-40 US, .303 Brit, et al) used in early bolt actions used RN bullets. Worked just fine.
FP's are F to keep 'em from going bang while in the tube mag. A lever action has far more likelihood of a cartridge getting out of hand while in the feed process than a bolt action. The cartridge is loose in the rifle for a longer time in a lever.
"...a spiral object..." What spiral object you pushing? Bullets don't start to turn until they're in the barrel. And they wobble(pitch and yaw) long after they've left the barrel.

 

[Sweet Shooter]

I once bough .308 Savage rounds by mistake for my .308 win. Not flat nose I know, but they shot very accurately. I think they were closer to the lands when seated to the canular. They had a deeper ogive and a lower BC... but they worked excellent. You just never know.

 

[jmr40]

I bought a box of 150 gr RN Remington Corelokt bullets by mistake a few years back instead of pointed bullets. I eventually loaded and shot all 100 bullets and never had any issues with feeding.

But.....you gain nothing over just using pointed bullets for which 308 is meant. I found accuracy to be mediocre at best and even loaded a lot slower than I'd normally load they were really too fast at close range. Those bullets are designed to impact at 1600-2000 fps. Most real world 30-30's are 2000-2100 fps at the muzzle. Starting loads for 308 are 2300-2500 fps. I'd be concerned about bullets blowing up on impact.

I'd buy a pointed bullet designed for quick expansion such as a Hornady SST, or Nosler Ballistic tip and load them to mid level speeds. If recoil is a concern 125 gr pointed bullets have very little recoil

 

[44 AMP]

I've never had any issues with flat point or round nose .30 caliber bullets in bolt action rifles. The main limitation is not to expect the same performance you get at .30-30 speeds if you load them at .300 mag speeds. If you do, they will act like varmint bullets, and not like controlled expansion bullets.

I HAVE had definite issues with flat points feeding in .45 caliber bolt actions. RN works MUCH better there.

 

[Paul B.]

A very very long time ago, when I hunted the extreme northwest corner of California, my rifle was a sadly bubba'd 1903 Springfield with 18" barrel. The load comprised of a 170 gr. Speer Hot Core (I guess they were called that back in the late 1950's. Just don't remember.) Bullet was for the 30-30 and I loaded them to an estimated 2400-2450 FPS. Worked quite well from that rifle. Later years I used the 180 girl Sierra round nose in a Remington 660 with 20" barrel and the were quite positive on Mule Deer hunted on a private ranch These were loaded to full power. In either case, no pun intended both bullets fed without any problem for me. However, if feeding could be a concern, I would choose the round nose of a flat not, especially if they shot well in my rifle.
Paul B.

 

[Mobuck]

"Basically, I never shoot more than 150 yards and, at that distance, flat/round nose bullets definitely hit a bit harder."

I think you'll have a heck of a time proving that statement. The only time that using a flat/round nose 30/30 bullet would be advantageous would be if you download the .308 below the expansion velocity threshold of regular pointed bullets.