(FL) Sorry to do this, but I give up.

LonWilson

New member
Someone asked me this over at Packing.org. I was suprised:

Glock, a while back you were trying to get a "Concealed Weapons and Firearms Reform Act" going. How has it gone? Is it DOA? I am a CWL holder and (at 31) a college student and think I should be able to carry on campus if I choose to. Other states allow it, why not in Florida?

My response:

Wow. I can't believe anyone even remembered the CWFRA that I wrote. I'm glad you're interested in it. Getting anyone fired up in Florida over this has been long, hard, and rather pointless. Florida's politics make it extremely difficult. I was facing not only anti-gunners, but even our own pro-gun forces.

The biggest stumbling block to my effort has been, quite frankly, Marion Hammer. She pretty much sets the tone for gun rights issues in the state Legislature. Yes, I spoke to her, and she would not consider it because she believed that the Legislature would balk at it, and may even add restrictions to bill (this is a risk with any piece of legislation) against us.

I pleaded with her, and I reasoned with her, but it was to no avail. We had 9/11 behind us in momentum, and that, quite frankly, the media will always bleat when pro-gun measures are taken up.

If I were to take a guess, I would say that Marion Hammer and Unified Sportsmen of Florida made a few deals to keep a large majority of lawmakers pro-gun. Voting against anti-gun measures is safer and easier on politicians than it is voting FOR pro-gun measures. My guess is that there was a deal made in order to just keep further gun control from being enacted, in exchange for no more "uncomfortable pro-gun votes". Which means there is a large amount of legislators who pander to the pro-gun vote by not allowing further gun control, but would bolt and become anti-gun as soon as a hard pro-gun issue comes along, and will continue to support gun control under the guise of "I've seen the light! Guns are bad!". RINO's, basically, rule the roost here in Florida.

Basically, all the fight had gone out of the pro-gun forces down here after the hard fought victory in 1987, and no improvements have been made since. NRA and others moved elsewhere, using us as an example, some to bad effect, like in Texas, Oklahoma, Lousiana, Michigan and Mississipii.

As for my own efforts here in FL. They are unfortunately temporary. Financial hardship, lack of willingness by pro-gunners, as well as the inability to find a job in my chosen career field, has pretty much forced me to move to another state. I want to find someone to carry the torch for this bill, since I will get a Florida non-resident permit. However, I'm moving to Oregon or Washington state, and if I attend college in either states, I can carry at a college campus under state law. I would stay and fight, but when the best you can hope for down here is 8 bucks an hour as a security guard, and you get an opportunity to work for 15 bucks an hour in another state where your skills can be used to the fullest, what would you do?
------------

Yep, that's right, I'm moving from Florida, probably by the end of this summer. Probably Oregon or Washington State, more likely Portland, Oregon. The reasons above in the last paragraph states the reason.

I wish I could stand and fight, but I cannot. Continued stalling by Marion Hammer and USF, continued personal financial crisises that cannot be resolved until I'm working in Oregon, pro-gun forces malaise, and other stuff which I'd rather not discuss at the moment forces my move.

To be honest, I'm sick of this state. It's fast becoming California south, the cost of living is skyrocketing, and quite frankly, I'm sick of the lack of scenery. Everything is swampy, humid, hot, and the like.

I'm moving to Oregon/Washington area because I need a change of scenery, a better paying job. Oh, and if I live in Oregon, I'm joining Oregon Firearms Federation, as well, a NO COMPROMISE gun rights group, who does have their stuff together.

I do still plan to become an NRA certed instructor, will get permits from both OR and other states when I turn 21 (FL, WA, ME, NH, MA, UT, NV, and CT). It's just I'd rather have a good paying job so I can afford to have some pleasures in life than continue to live like a pauper (well, not that bad, but living with parents suck, ya know, and I want to be my own man. *shrugs*).

Anyway, I am looking for people to carry the torch in FL. Maybe someone more effective in taking it to Tallahassee than I am.....
 
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Carry24x7

Moderator
Its True

"Basically, all the fight had gone out of the pro-gun forces down here after the hard fought victory in 1987, and no improvements have been made since."

It was a hard fight and Florida won big. Florida won big here and got the ball rolling elsewhere.

Some other state needs to step up and be the next Florida. Be the next state that pushes the rest.
 

LonWilson

New member
Some other state needs to step up and be the next Florida. Be the next state that pushes the rest.

Two words:

New York.

At the moment, 3 bills are coming through the pipeline in the NY Legislature. They are currently in the Senate, but the grapevine is saying that the Assembly will also pass it.

Why? A few factors. 9/11 hit NY the hardest, especially NYC. As a result of the sheer terror and chaos that occured, tens thousands of new first time buyers of handguns rushed to the gun stores to buy handguns, but were turned away because of the rather oppresive permitting system, which basically told them that there was no way they would get what is known as "Class F carry permits" (commonly known as CPL's outside of the NY area) unless they were politically connected. Basically, the gun stores said "Sorry, there's nothing I can do. Call the Legislature if you want to get the law changed".

They did. They flooded their local legislators, demanding changes to the law. They didn't want to hear the legislator's excuses about "gun violence", they wanted their carry permits, as well.

Some assembly members also changed their views on guns after 9/11 as well. *shrugs* At least, that's what I heard. SCOPE and NCNF has been leading the charge up there, with some online assistance from me in rallying NY pro-gun support on KABA with my article that NY pro-gunners should unite. Indeed, these bills are the best shot at "Right to Carry" (NRA term, not mine) for many years before and to come, and hopefully, the job will get done, and it will become law.

If that does happen, and the NY media starts spreading the world that citizens can get Class F carry permits everywhere in the state, including New York City, the crime rate in NYC will drop like a rock. Remember FL's homicide rate, which went from 36% above the national average to 4% below in less than 4 years after shall-issue carry passed in 1987. Even after the Guiliani administration, the crime rate in NYC is extremely high.

The bills pass, become law, NRA declares New York a "Right to Carry" state. It may not be completely true, but New York's laws would be significantly improved. Pretty much anyone with a clean criminal and mental record will be able to get a Class F pistol license. Out of NYC residents will be able to carry inside of NYC just fine.

Meanwhile, SCOPE and other pro-gun groups pepper high crime neighborhoods with fliers.

"Attention criminals: The next time you try to rob, rape, kill, or otherwise seriously hurt a law abiding citizen in this city, it is very likely you will end up shot dead.

Regards,

The law abiding citizens of New York State" :D :D

The crime rate would go way down, and the resulting pressure would be astronomical on other states. Why? New York state is regarded as the basis of all the things the anti-gunners want. It would be extremely demoralizing if the anti's favorite state were to go "Right to Carry". :)

In any case, I'll be enjoying myself in Portland. I'm already ordering some OFF shirts to be sent down here. :)
 
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Carry24x7

Moderator
You Won't Get An Argument From Me On That!

Yep, if they can pull it off in NY then the pressure will be literally unbearable!!

Facts are facts. It wasn't magic, it wasn't space aliens, it wasn't anything except armed citizens that got Florida from 36% above to 4% BELOW. That is a phenomenal turn around which proves conclusively that:

- Law-abiding citizens really are law-abiding citizens, even (and especially) when they can walk around with loaded guns.

- Criminals prey on the weak and flee the stong.

- An armed society is NOT a polite society (the worst drivers in America are in Florida) but it is a law-abiding society.
 

LonWilson

New member
Yep, if they can pull it off in NY then the pressure will be literally unbearable!!

Indeed. New York is a linchpin. The loss of NY to anti-gun forces would make them retreat to IL, MD, MA, and NJ. However, the extreme drop in crime in NYC and the rest fo the state would be a catalyst a la Florida 15 years ago.
 

Russ Howard

New member
I won't be downloading the bills. If the sponsor's unable to provide a summary and rationale, then I'm unable to spend time on this.
 

LonWilson

New member
I won't be downloading the bills. If the sponsor's unable to provide a summary and rationale, then I'm unable to spend time on this.

It's in the bill's "WHEREAS" clauses. Fine, here it is:

Whereas, In 1987, the Florida Legislature passed the “Jack Hagler Self Defense Act”, a groundbreaking piece of legislation that spearheaded
the liberalization of concealed firearms in states across the United States.

Whereas, Florida and out of state residents licensed under the “Jack Hagler Self Defense Act”, also known as the s. 790.06, have shown that in the 15 years of history with the law, those licensed are generally more law abiding than the rest of the general public, according to studies published by Dr. Gary Kleck and Dr. John Lott, and have shown that they can be trusted with carrying a firearm for the lawful defense of themselves or others.

Whereas, Under subsection (12) of s. 790.06, licensees must not carry in places such as schools, colleges, and universities; polling places; legal meetings of the state and it’s subdivisions; courthouses; bars; or athletic events. There is currently no tangible evidence that a person carrying a firearm otherwise lawfully in these places makes a person any more violent, or more prone to violence, or more prone to unlawful acts with firearms, than carrying in places other than as listed in s. 790.06(12).

Whereas, the current law in s. 790.015 requires for recognition of a out of state license to carry a concealed firearm, the resident of such state must give recognition to Florida residents licensed under 790.06. Though the law itself was made to allow the residents of other states to visit Florida with the ability to defend themselves lawfully, requiring others states to recognize our licenses creates an unreasonable burden on the residents of other states to prove they have the ability to lawfully carry a firearm, as well as put a burden on the Department of State to contact other states. License holders in such other states don’t neccesarily have internet access, so they may not be able to find out up to date information on which states recognizes our licenses so we can recognize their licenses. This is an untenable situation. The states of Idaho, Indiana, Michigan, and Kentucky have regarded any license to carry a concealed firearm from a resident outside of their state to be valid, no matter if such other state recognizes their licenses. Again, no major issues have arised in those states in regards to full recognition of other state licenses.

Whereas, s. 790.11, s. 790.12, and 790.14, as written, are obsolete and have been superseded by newer laws and regulations by the U.S. Department of the Interior, as well as state law assuming the licensing duties denied to the county commissions as described in s. 790.12.

Whereas, some clerical errors need to be corrected in s. 790.06(13).
 
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