There's this kid, my friend's son, who's young, smallish & very slight of build. My friend knows little of rifles; he bow hunts. His son wants to go get a deer this fall. I'm trying to minimize the recoil for him. There'll definitely be no shots taken longer than 125 yards, max, more like 60-100 yards. Seeing as he's kind of small, what about a .357 Handi-Rifle? He could practice with .38 SPL for cheap. Out the door price for one around here is only $226.81 so it won't be a big deal if it gets scratched or dinged up. The kid is a great shot with a .22, btw.
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First rifle??? .357???
- Thread starter woad_yurt
- Start date
First kid's rifle
You didn't metion the "Kid's" age. A high powered rifle is not a good choice for a kid until he/she learns the basic safety rules and has a chance at the firing range. The first "hunt" should never be the "kid's" new experience with a rifle. Build a youngster's confidence with a basic 22LR (bolt action/semi-auto) and let the youth learn how not to flinch with the crackle. Make sure the sight the rifle until they are comfortable with the target. Then step up to a larger caliber. Unfortunately, the kick of high powered is a significant jolt to a smaller shooter's frame. In time, depending on the age, safey and skill (and learning curve) of the shooter, should you jump to a higher caliber rifle. You can surely ruin a child's experice with that jolt to their arm.
NRA Certified Trainer
You didn't metion the "Kid's" age. A high powered rifle is not a good choice for a kid until he/she learns the basic safety rules and has a chance at the firing range. The first "hunt" should never be the "kid's" new experience with a rifle. Build a youngster's confidence with a basic 22LR (bolt action/semi-auto) and let the youth learn how not to flinch with the crackle. Make sure the sight the rifle until they are comfortable with the target. Then step up to a larger caliber. Unfortunately, the kick of high powered is a significant jolt to a smaller shooter's frame. In time, depending on the age, safey and skill (and learning curve) of the shooter, should you jump to a higher caliber rifle. You can surely ruin a child's experice with that jolt to their arm.
NRA Certified Trainer
The kid knows how to safely handle a rifle and has gone to the range with me enough for me to know he's a good shot. He's just a little wary of recoil. He shot my SKS but didn't like getting thumped in the shoulder. I figure that .357 in a rifle should be mild enough for his shoulder yet strong enough for a deer at 100 yards. Anyone here shoot .357 in a rifle? What's it like?
Wayward_Son
New member
I think it's a good choice. I haven't used mine yet for deer but I plan to this season if I can find a place to hunt. I'll be using American Eagle's 158 grain JSP, which my Marlin 1894 likes. Should have plenty of penetration and expansion for Texas whitetail.
Recoil is very light (much lighter than a 30-30, which is already light) and also not nearly as loud as other choices (again, quieter than a 30-30so he won't be scared by the noise). My gun and bullet choice should be good for deer inside 100 yards with open sights.
Recoil is very light (much lighter than a 30-30, which is already light) and also not nearly as loud as other choices (again, quieter than a 30-30so he won't be scared by the noise). My gun and bullet choice should be good for deer inside 100 yards with open sights.
chris in va
New member
A 357 single shot recoils less than a semiauto SKS?
chris in va
New member
The SKS is 1/8 heavier than the H&R but it's around 40% more powerful.
That's fine, but the SKS is a gas piston semiauto.
Here's an example. I have a Saiga in x39 and a bolt action CZ in x39. The Saiga has a more 'drawn out' recoil, more of a shove. The CZ is a quick jab.
I'm not trying to argue or anything, just haven't tried a full power 357 in a rifle yet. I would think they'd be about the same, recoil wise. Maybe someone on here has tried both and can comment.
johnwilliamson062
Moderator
in my experience weight of the rifle is way more important than action type. I shot a heavy break action Browning ?Citorio? last week that kicked about half as much as my semi auto 11-87. The kick was much crisper. Of course a young hunter may not appreciate lugging around a twelve pound rifle. If I were you I would contact the range master at the local hunting club and tell him you are looking for a cheap deer rifle for this kid. My guess is he will own about a dozen, or at least have access to them, and you can walk the kid up. I doubt he would do the favor for you, but he might for a young hunter. I really think you are going to have a hard time solving this problem without having him try a few guns to see what works.
banditt007
New member
if the kid can deal with it, def get the heaviest gun possible. as mentioned that really soaks up the recoil. make sure the gun FITS him well. and make sure to add a nice recoil pad like limbsaver or the X-coil. i wouldnt suggest a muzzle brake, even though it reduces recoil the increased noise may make it seem to 'kick more' even though it dosent, just b/c of increased muzzle blast.
remember with the .357 mag, shot placement is key, and you can't take shots that would be no problem for a 30-30+ sized gun. if they make .243 reduced recoil rounds, coupled with a heavy gun (def not synthetic, or synthetic with weight in the stock), recoil pad, good fit ect it just might work. i know that will still probably be too much for him but def worth a shot.
i know those h&r single shots are light, no recoil pad, and w/ the single shot action, there is no recoil reduction like there would be in a semi.
remember with the .357 mag, shot placement is key, and you can't take shots that would be no problem for a 30-30+ sized gun. if they make .243 reduced recoil rounds, coupled with a heavy gun (def not synthetic, or synthetic with weight in the stock), recoil pad, good fit ect it just might work. i know that will still probably be too much for him but def worth a shot.
i know those h&r single shots are light, no recoil pad, and w/ the single shot action, there is no recoil reduction like there would be in a semi.
357
The 357 would be a great choice. Especially in the way you explained it. Practice would be about as cheap as you can get. It sounds like you are working with the young fellow so HOORAH for you. I like the Encore a bit more for a youth. But they are a bit more expensive, but not a lot more if you buy a Plain Jane model. And then you could get a 22 LR barrel.
Personally I would never consider a semi-auto for a child. I am teachinmg a six year old, and I require him to have the barrel in break down conditions at all times. Safety for a child is paramount-and I consider a semi-auto as UNSAFE for a child. Just my opinion. Tom.
The 357 would be a great choice. Especially in the way you explained it. Practice would be about as cheap as you can get. It sounds like you are working with the young fellow so HOORAH for you. I like the Encore a bit more for a youth. But they are a bit more expensive, but not a lot more if you buy a Plain Jane model. And then you could get a 22 LR barrel.
Personally I would never consider a semi-auto for a child. I am teachinmg a six year old, and I require him to have the barrel in break down conditions at all times. Safety for a child is paramount-and I consider a semi-auto as UNSAFE for a child. Just my opinion. Tom.
fisherman66
New member
If it were me I'd load a 30/30 (or similarly chambered rifle) buttstock stock with lead shot and epoxy mix. I've got nothing against a .357 for a multi-purpose "truck" type weapon, but as a dedicated deer gun I tend to side with those sending at least 120 grains down range at a speed over 2000 fps (around 2500fps better). I can't stand recoil either, but I owe it to the game to give them a good pill. An extra couple pounds and a scope should help tame the recoil down to a tolerable level. I've been shooting a 12 pound beanfield rifle chambered in 280 for years and I usually can call the shot due to the excellent recoil characteristics of that rifle.
i am the father of daughters and have taught them and several friends' kids.
First, I never say kick...i use push.
Next, I let them practice with the 22 ...i sight in the deer rifle. They only dry fire the deer rifle. Do check fit. It is important.
Next, I take an ink pen and buy a couple hunting magazines. Teach them about deer anatomy and shooting angles by showing them points of aim at the 100s of deer in the magazine. Equally important is showing them when NOT to shoot.
When they pull the trigger on a deer, they will not feel the recoil. Adrenaline is a wonderous anti pushing/kicking agent.
My kids used a h&r .30-30 that I shortened the stock on. Had a friend make me some light loads. Saved the extra wood to add back to the stock. Remington now makes reduced recoil loads over the counter...they work great. The 44 mag/special works good too. The 7.62x39 is not bad at all. Interarms and Charles Daly made two bolt actions smaller than the Remy Model 7 if you can find one.
Final recommendation. Consider a pistol scope or other long eye relief scope. Scopes can bite a kid and hurt a whole lot worse that the recoil.
Good luck
First, I never say kick...i use push.
Next, I let them practice with the 22 ...i sight in the deer rifle. They only dry fire the deer rifle. Do check fit. It is important.
Next, I take an ink pen and buy a couple hunting magazines. Teach them about deer anatomy and shooting angles by showing them points of aim at the 100s of deer in the magazine. Equally important is showing them when NOT to shoot.
When they pull the trigger on a deer, they will not feel the recoil. Adrenaline is a wonderous anti pushing/kicking agent.
My kids used a h&r .30-30 that I shortened the stock on. Had a friend make me some light loads. Saved the extra wood to add back to the stock. Remington now makes reduced recoil loads over the counter...they work great. The 44 mag/special works good too. The 7.62x39 is not bad at all. Interarms and Charles Daly made two bolt actions smaller than the Remy Model 7 if you can find one.
Final recommendation. Consider a pistol scope or other long eye relief scope. Scopes can bite a kid and hurt a whole lot worse that the recoil.
Good luck
speakerguy79
New member
.30-30 or .243 would last him a lot longer, but if he really doesn't like the recoil then a .357 or .44 would fine at those ranges. He shouldn't need a scope at those ranges or maybe a fixed 4x.
Here are the reduced recoil offerings from Remington listed by caliber, product code number and grain/bullet:
260 Remington RL2601 140 Core-Lokt PSP
7mm-08 Remington RL7M081 140 Core-Lokt PSP
270 Win RL270W2 115 Core-Lokt PSP
7mm Remington Mag RL7MM4 140 Core-Lokt PSP
30-30 Win RL30301 125 Core-Lokt SP
30-06 Sprg RL30062 125 Core-Lokt PSP
308 Win RL308W1 125 Core-Lokt PSP
300 Win Mag RL300W1 150 Core-Lokt PSP
300 Remington Ultra Mag RL300UM1 150 Core-Lokt PSP
260 Remington RL2601 140 Core-Lokt PSP
7mm-08 Remington RL7M081 140 Core-Lokt PSP
270 Win RL270W2 115 Core-Lokt PSP
7mm Remington Mag RL7MM4 140 Core-Lokt PSP
30-30 Win RL30301 125 Core-Lokt SP
30-06 Sprg RL30062 125 Core-Lokt PSP
308 Win RL308W1 125 Core-Lokt PSP
300 Win Mag RL300W1 150 Core-Lokt PSP
300 Remington Ultra Mag RL300UM1 150 Core-Lokt PSP
bottom rung
New member
While everybody has been recomending other things, I beleive the .357 is a good idea. Jeff from Gunblast.com did a wonderful article on the a .357 lever action, whether it was Marlin or Winchester, I can't remember. It is in the Archives on his website. At the cost of the Handi-Rifle the boy can afford to grow out of it. If the recoil seems too much, train him with .38s and let him hunt with .357s. This was the advice in an old gun magazine. The guy writing in wanted to take his sons elk hunting, but he didn't want the recoil to ruin them. The advice of the editor was to train them with light handloads, then let them hunt with full power stuff. If the boy matures mentally as he matures physically, he will probably want to keep that .357 single shot forever. There is nothing like your first "real" gun. I wish I still had mine.
Adventurer 2
New member
If he doesn't like the 7.62 X 39, I would say forget the 44 Mag - it kicks more than a 30 30. The 30 30 kicks more than a .243. The .243 kicks more than a 7.62 X 39. The 7.62 kicks more than a .357. A .357 kicks more than a .223. I own a .357 1894C. It's good for deer close in. If you get one, I would make sure and find the furthest range he can keep his groups in the deer kill zone. Stock sights at a hundred yards will take a lot of practice. I have never hunted a deer with a .223 but if it is allowed that could be another option recoil wise.
The .357 Handi-Rifle has no sights at all. I was thinking of a lower powered scope, maybe about 2.5-3 power. The more I think about it, the more it seems like this would be a pretty neat, simple, dependable, care-free gun for a younger kid. Googling for ballistics, I read somewhere that, with a 22" barrel, one could expect about 750 ft lbs at 100 yards with a .357. That has gotta be plenty to punch an effective hole in a deer. If that's not enough, Buffalo Bore time.
BTW, at 100 yards, this kid can definitely group within a deer's kill zone, easy. He's a pretty good shot with a Marlin 60.
BTW, at 100 yards, this kid can definitely group within a deer's kill zone, easy. He's a pretty good shot with a Marlin 60.
From Gunblast.com....article praising .357 as the perfect first gun:
While the 94 Ranger Compact is available chambered for the .30-30 cartridge, I prefer the .357 magnum chambering for a youth gun, for a couple of reasons. First of all, a hunter, any hunter, needs to practice. Rifle practice is also fun, especially for younger hunters just getting started. They love to shoot, if the gun doesn’t punish them too badly. Give a new shooter a hard-kicking rifle that doesn’t fit him properly, and he is very likely to develop a flinch, miss his targets, and would rather stay home and watch music videos than go hunting. The .357 Magnum in a carbine, is very light on recoil, while packing plenty of punch for whitetail deer, even the big ones.
As far as power, the .357 Magnum using the right ammunition is in the same class as a good .30-30 load, while shooting a bullet of larger diameter. From a sixteen-inch barrel, factory thirty-thirty ammunition from the big ammo manufacturers drives a 170 grain bullet at just under 1900 feet-per-second (fps). The .357 Ranger Compact, with the same length barrel, drives a 180 grain bullet in excess of 1800 fps, and this too is using factory ammunition available from Buffalo Bore. I tested the Ranger Compact over the chronograph using a variety of factory ammunition, along with two handloads, with the following results:
Load Velocity (fps)
Grizzly Cartridge Co. 180-grain cast lead 1502
Buffalo Bore 180-grain cast lead 1812
Cor-Bon .38 Special 125-grain Jaketed Hollowpoint 1437
Handload 125-grain Jacketed Hollowpoint 2003
Handload 180-grain Hornady XTP Hollowpoint 1831
While the 94 Ranger Compact is available chambered for the .30-30 cartridge, I prefer the .357 magnum chambering for a youth gun, for a couple of reasons. First of all, a hunter, any hunter, needs to practice. Rifle practice is also fun, especially for younger hunters just getting started. They love to shoot, if the gun doesn’t punish them too badly. Give a new shooter a hard-kicking rifle that doesn’t fit him properly, and he is very likely to develop a flinch, miss his targets, and would rather stay home and watch music videos than go hunting. The .357 Magnum in a carbine, is very light on recoil, while packing plenty of punch for whitetail deer, even the big ones.
As far as power, the .357 Magnum using the right ammunition is in the same class as a good .30-30 load, while shooting a bullet of larger diameter. From a sixteen-inch barrel, factory thirty-thirty ammunition from the big ammo manufacturers drives a 170 grain bullet at just under 1900 feet-per-second (fps). The .357 Ranger Compact, with the same length barrel, drives a 180 grain bullet in excess of 1800 fps, and this too is using factory ammunition available from Buffalo Bore. I tested the Ranger Compact over the chronograph using a variety of factory ammunition, along with two handloads, with the following results:
Load Velocity (fps)
Grizzly Cartridge Co. 180-grain cast lead 1502
Buffalo Bore 180-grain cast lead 1812
Cor-Bon .38 Special 125-grain Jaketed Hollowpoint 1437
Handload 125-grain Jacketed Hollowpoint 2003
Handload 180-grain Hornady XTP Hollowpoint 1831