Firing without trigger

[9x18_Walther]

I stumbled upon this story today about a gentleman who used a Remington 1875 clone in a self-defense shooting.

http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=26390&hilit=VCDL+robbery

At one point, the trigger breaks on the clone and according to the story:

"But the gun was a single action, so the GO pushing himself up with one
arm, aimed the gun, pulled the hammer back and let it fly forward -
twice."

I was under the assumption that the half-cock notch on SAAs and similar would prevent the hammer from slipping and firing off a round. How could this be true?

Isn't this the reason the trigger has to be held back to "fan" a single action revolver (the thought of such a behavior is revolting however! )

Not really a single-action revolver kind of guy so your input would be interesting...

 

[grey.ghost]

Depends on how the trigger was broken I suppose. If it was pinned back, this would be likely. Or if the GO was able to hold the remaining portion of trigger back, fanning the hammer would be likely.

 

[Pahoo]

Can be done

My understanding is that some gun fighters of the old west, tricked out their SA revolvers that allowed them to "only" fan the hammer. In fact, recall that the triggers were removed. There are also some modern day fast draw shooters that only fan but not sure how they do it. I've only seen videos on them. ....

Be Safe !!!

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

There is fanning and there is slip hammering.

Fanning is when you hold the gun with one hand at hip level, holding the trigger back, and slam the hammer back with the palm of your hand, releasing the hammer as it reaches full cock. Fanning is not an accurate way to shoot a revolver, first off you are hip shooting without the benefits of the sights, and secondly, the violent slamming of the hammer with the palm will cause the gun to shoot just about anywhere. OK for fast draw where they are shooting blanks and are shooting at targets extremely close, where accuracy does not matter. But despite what you see on the Westerns, you can't hit crap that way.

Slip Hammering is s technique that is often used in with live ammunition in Cowboy Action Shooting. The gun will be held up so it can be sighted properly. It is a two handed technique. The strong hand holds the gun and holds the trigger back, the weak hand is in such a position to allow the weak hand thumb to work the hammer. With the trigger held back, the gun will fire as quickly as the hammer can be cocked and released. With practice a shooter can shoot accurately and very fast by Slip Hammering.


Here are the parts of the lockwork of a Colt SAA. The sear (the tip of the trigger) is positioned near the full cock notch of the hammer. The two notches with the overhanging lips are the half cock notch and the 'safety cock' notch. Notice how thin the sear is. Quite easy to snap it right off, rendering the trigger inoperable. So in that condition, if the trigger is held back and the hammer released from full cock the other two notches will rotate past the broken trigger and allow the gun to fire. Similarly, if one of the notches breaks off, yes that can happen too, and the trigger is held back the other notches will rotate past the sear, allowing the gun to fire. Lastly, if the trigger spring breaks, yes, that can happen to, it has happened to me, the trigger will flop around. So holding it back will still allow the hammer to rotate all the way to fire the gun. The bolt of a Colt is actuated by the cam on the side of the hammer, and the hand rotates around its hole in the hammer, so the trigger is completely unnecessary for the cylinder to cycle and lock up properly. But the trigger does make for better control and better safety. In a pinch, the trigger can be tied back against the trigger guard with a piece of string.

Remington parts are not the same, but they are similar enough that the same can be done with a Remington.

 

[James K]

I seldom disagree with Driftwood, but slip hammering, as I know and practiced it, does not involve two hands. It is a technique where the index finger holds the trigger back (or it is tied back) while the thumb cocks the hammer then slips off the side of the hammer. Some old time gunfighters (and modern fast draw artists) cut the hammer spur down and smoothed it out to make slip hammering easier.

Jim

 

[burrhead]

"Fanning is not an accurate way to shoot a revolver"

And then there was Bob Munden. Of course, he was not human.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS9uGktUCrY

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

I seldom disagree with Driftwood, but slip hammering, as I know and practiced it, does not involve two hands. It is a technique where the index finger holds the trigger back (or it is tied back) while the thumb cocks the hammer then slips off the side of the hammer. Some old time gunfighters (and modern fast draw artists) cut the hammer spur down and smoothed it out to make slip hammering easier.

Howdy Jame K

In CAS it is a usually a two handed technique. The weak hand thumb has a better angle. While slip hammering can be done one handed, because of the positions of the hands, the weak hand thumb can roll backwards in a more fluid motion, while the strong hand thumb is more restricted in its motion, and is more restricted to a crablike motion. Some guys who slip hammer are amazingly fast. Of course, some guys work the trigger normally with the weak hand thumb working the hammer and they are amazingly fast too.

 

[Jim Watson]

Elmer Keith showed guns modified for slip shooting with the trigger removed or tied back and the hammer spur welded lower for easier reach.

 

[9x18_Walther]

Looking over some schematics, I'm thinking the sear nose must have sheared off. I guess I was thinking that the trigger snapped off but the rest of the components were intact. The photo posted would explain the story. No sear to catch the falling hammer = boom.

Thanks

 

[James K]

Sorry, I forgot about CAS and was thinking of the old time definition and use.

I sometimes also forget that when someone says he has an SAA or Schofield or Walker that he is (almost always) talking about an Italian made repro.

Jim

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

I sometimes also forget that when someone says he has an SAA or Schofield or Walker that he is (almost always) talking about an Italian made repro.

Glad you said 'almost always'. Those are real Colt 2nd Gen parts. And if I show photos or a Schofield it is a real Schofield. Don't own a real Walker, they run close to $500,000 these days.