Finally got my Les Baer .223

[Rimfire5]

I just took delivery of a NIB Les Baer Super Varmint .223 with a 1:8 twist match barrel, a Geiselle trigger, and an A2 stock.
Les Baer promised under 0.5 inches with 5 round groups at 100 yards and included a test target shot from a fixture in doors with two groups under 0.2 inches with Federal Premium Gold Match 77 grain ammo. The chamber depth from base to ogive measures 1.800 exactly with a 77 SMK bullet. The Magpul Gen 3 mag that came with the rifle will only load out to 2.260 OAL without touching the mag (that's 1.750 to 1.754 base to ogive) so I have a jump of 46 thousandths at 2.260 OAL. The 46 thousandths is still a shorter jump than I have ever measured in a .223, semi auto or bolt action.

I mounted a Bushnell 6500 Elite 4.5-30X50mm scope on extra high rings to be able to get a repetitive cheek weld and tried some Federal Premium Gold Sierra Match King factory ammo with 69 and 77 grain bullets.

It took me a while to get comfortable with the rifle but it shot well. I got lots of groups with three rounds touching and two out. I took off the Versapod bipod and used my Sinclair front rest and a Protektor rear bag and things got better. I finally realized that I was not maintaining my position behind the scope and was causing the problem. I still managed to get these groups.

69 grain SMKs

77 grain SMKs

As you can see, I am still having trouble with getting the same position behind the scope from group to group, but the rifle does its part when I do mine.

Then I tried some hand loads with CFE223 powder and got better results. Of course by the time I had started to hand load for the rifle, I had gotten more comfortable and got better results.

I tried to match the velocity of the Federal 69 and 77 factory ammos to start with and also tried 2.250 and 2.260 OAL (factory is 2.250 OAL). The 2.260 OAL shoots slightly better but the sample is small and the shooter is the problem.
The overall average of the 6 groups is 0.456 so far, so it looks like Les Baer's claim has been verified, even by a questionable shooter.

I now need to try to find what powder works best with this rifle, but it looks like it will shoot both 69 and 77 grain SMKs under 0.5 inches if I can do my part.

Questions:
1) Anyone know of a good mag that will let me load out to 2.290 so I can get within 20 thousandths of the rifling with a 77 grain SMK?
2) Any suggestions on powders that might work best with 69 to 77 grain bullets? I have N140, Varget, CFE223, Reloader 15, H4895, H335 and H322 available.

 

[MrBorland]

Any suggestions on powders that might work best with 69 to 77 grain bullets? I have N140, Varget, CFE223, Reloader 15, H4895, H335 and H322 available.

Varget and RL-15 are very popular. I use RL-15 & 77gr SMKs to good effect.

 

[peggysue]

beautiful rifle

 

[Corrections Cop]

That's one nice looking rifle!

 

[Ritz]

<drooool>

 

[bfoosh006]

What is the diameter of that barrel !?

 

[steveNChunter]

Any suggestions on powders that might work best with 69 to 77 grain bullets? I have N140, Varget, CFE223, Reloader 15, H4895, H335 and H322 available.

25.5 gr of Varget under a 69 gr Sierra Matchking 0.010" off the lands, Win. brass, and BR-4 primers gives me groups in the .2's with my .223 Savage bolt gun. I have seen that load or something close to it shoot "lights out" in several .223's. Of course start lower and work up slowly watching for pressure signs. This load is half a grain below max in my manual.

 

[Rimfire5]

The barrel measures 0.925 about an inch from the muzzle.

 

[Jimro]

I'm guessing the best mag to try is a Brownells 20 round aluminum magazine. You might be able to squeeze a few more thousandths over the Magpuls. I can't think of any mags with thinner bodies than the aluminum ones.

Jimro

 

[P-990]

Beautiful looking rifle and fantastic shooting! That's a nice rig.

As for your magazine issue, 2.26" is all I've ever been able to squeeze out of any AR magazine. I actually load to 2.245" for anything that might go into a PMag just to !make sure it fits. Luckily 69 and 77 grain SMKs, and Nosler Custom Competitions for that matter, are very forgiving of jump to rifling. I've never heard of anybody experiencing dramatic group improvements playing with seating depth on those bullets.(Side note, I also found the 80gr Nosler CCs to be very jump tolerant and have loaded them from 15 to 25 thousandths off the lands with good results.)

Powder to try? Anything in the H4895/RL-15/Varget burn range for 68/69 and heavier in 223. I've used all 3 and while I prefer Varget, I don't lose sleep if I have to sub in one of the others. Other powders I've heard folks have success with are 8208-XBR and AA2520. If you want to try the little 52gr match bullets, Win 748 and H335 will work wonderfully.

 

[1Hobie]

If you want to load to the lands, of course the round won't fit in the magazine. However, if you want to stretch your re-load a bit longer, try one of these:
http://www.brownells.com/magazines/...-single-shot-magazine-follower-prod34112.aspx

I've used one and the rifle functions the same way, load the round through the ejection port, release the bolt, and fire. The spent brass will eject and the bolt locks back. You can look at each cartridge for anomalies. The follower is easy to install/uninstall. You can also index your rounds(in case you are getting some run-out) so that each round is inserted in the chamber the same way.

Regards,

Hobie

 

[Rimfire5]

Thanks for the tips on the magazines and the powders.
I had just about figured out that the slower powders would be the way to go with the 77 grain bullets. I have loaded some rounds with N140, Varget, and H4995 using 77 grain bullets. I intend to try R-15 also when I get delivery of some additional 77 and 69 grain bullets.

The chamber is short enough that I should be able to get within 20 thousandths or close enough with 77 grain bullets to see if the longer seating depth improves accuracy. That is as long as I can get a mag that will let me load to 2.290 OAL. Otherwise, i'll try the single round follower and single load.

Jimro, the aluminum mags from Brownells might just be the way to go.
Otherwise, 1Hobie, your recommendation will be my second choice.
I really would like to avoid single loading if I could, since I am using a brass catcher to keep my brass from getting their necks messed up bouncing around on the asphalt floor of our range.

 

[Woolecox]

Very nice rifle! Congrats. I was looking at those but ended up going with the Larue OBR 20”. So far, I have gotten my best groups using these components:

- Berger OTM TAC 77 grain bullets
- Ramshot TAC
- CCI #41
- Lake City brass
- OAL 2.255 (fits mag)
- 2800 fps.

Loaded on a Forster CoAx with Forster bench rest die set.

3 shots @ 100 yards

3 Shots @ 100 yards

3 shots @ 200 yards

 

[Rimfire5]

Here are the results with the Les Baer Super Varmint .223 with the 1:8 twist with 5 different powders with 77 Sierra Match King bullets.
I had some problems with the CFE233 groups and the H4895 groups because I shot those on the first day at the range and wasn't really comfortable with the rifle. I really ought to reshoot those groups, at least the CFE groups since that powder did really good with 3 shot groups when I was testing powder bullet combinations. I probably caused most of the variation in group size.
The best groups are a lot more consistent across the powders and probably more representative of their potential. N140 and R-15 were shot last Saturday in the cold and with some wind, but they performed pretty well.
I am hoping that my shooting skills are coming around.

5 Shot groups - Les Baer Custom Super Varmint .223 - Hand Loads By Average
# groups Powder--Bullet --Weight--Average --Best Group
16 ------ N140 ---- SMK ----- 77------ 0.435 ---- 0.316
13 ------ Varget ---SMK -----77------ 0.447 ---- 0.276
5 ------- R-15------SMK -----77------ 0.458 ---- 0.387
8 ------- CFE22----SMK ----- 77------ 0.556 ---- 0.358
11------- H4895----SMK ----- 77------ 0.613 ---- 0.274
53 Total groups Overall average =0.495

 

[mitranoc]

That is a beautiful set up!

 

[Greguw]

Very nice ! Buddy of mine picked one up a few months ago and had the pleasure for running a few rounds threw it .

 

[skizzums]

I can get the longest oal out of the c products mag, or I take a magpul ten round and dremel the front out til very thin, can get you another .005-.010

 

[Rimfire5]

I went to the range again this morning and shot 77 grain SMKs with H4895 and N140 powder in 5 round groups. Weather was in the high 30s with light rain with just about no wind.

The N140 loads averaged 0.390 for 8 groups.
There were groups of 0.236, 0.227, 0.330, 0.331, 0.425, 0.485 and 0.491.
I had one group of 0.599 that I know I was the cause of. The other group with that particular load was the 0.236 so it wasn't the load, it was me.

The H4895 loads averaged 0.439 for 7 groups. One of the fastest loads averaged 0.672 but the others averaged 0.346 so the fastest load was probably not in the rifle's sweet spot.
The H4895 groups measured 0.176, 0.274, 0.260, 0.491, 0.531,0.622 and 0.721 using On Target software. The last two were with the fastest velocity load. It looks like the slower loads performed best.

The overall average for all my hand loads with 5 shot groups is now 0.465 so things are getting better with each trip to the range.
I am not only getting to know the rifle but also focusing in on loads that are more centered on velocities that get the best accuracy.