Finally found a use for TiteGroup

[Nick_C_S]

Hello all. I shoot a lot of target level rounds, especially with revolver. Over the last few years, with the prompting of the shortage, I have tried a lot of different powders. Some have suited my needs well. And some have not.

TiteGroup was among the "have not" group. Basically, it's too slow to run right at the low target level application for which I bought it. So there I was - stuck with 4 #'s of Titegroup. I thought about selling it. But then, I decided to try it for other applications to see if it's a fit for something.

I believe I have found a good use for it: 44 Special. Specifically, propelling an X-treme 200 grain PFP. I did my work up with it starting a month or two ago. It seemed to run best at 6.1 grains - which is the Speer #14 max load. I've done quite a bit of shooting with it over the past weeks. And today, I finally chronographed it.

896 f/s through my Smith 629 5" bbl. Actually, I thought they were going faster. But the chrono was delivering consistent data (always does). 18 round sample. Good Standard Deviations too - in the 10 neighborhood.

I have also loaded it in 38 Special with an X-treme 158 grain SWC. I can get it to run fairly consistent at ICORE PF (760 f/s), but it much prefers to run hotter.

I have also loaded it for 45 ACP with both 200gn LSWC's and plated SWC's (Speer TMJ). Results forthcoming. I have a feeling that TiteGroup will work well in this application too.

The surprise to me is how slow TG's burn rate actually is. If it were any slower, I'd consider it an intermediate burn rate powder. And that's really the thrust of this post - how slow TG really is.

It's clearly a powder for "Winchester White Box" type fodder. i.e. ammo that's not real hot, but strong enough for general range practice. But definitely too slow for pure target/competition strength. I personally don't often shoot in a "general range practice" way. I'm either below that level, or above that level. Hence, my struggle to find a use for it.

It'll probably also run good under 124's in 9mm. But I don't shoot much 9mm. The only time I shoot 9mm is to keep in practice with my carry piece. And, I have a lot of factory ammo. So I haven't loaded 9mm in over a year.

TiteGroup is probably too fast for 10mm - the other caliber I have and shoot a lot. Besides, I load my 10mm ammo kind of stout. Why? Because it's 10mm; that's why.

I don't load 40 S&W, but that's probably a good place for TG too.

Circling back to 38, I'm thinking it would make good +P ammo for short barrels. But it's too fast for 357, except for light lead shooters - which I'm in the testing phase with, btw.

I will say this: TiteGroup has two things going for it. First, it tends to deliver good Standard Deviations - even when it's running sooty and under-pressured. Second, it meters really well. It's fine grained, and dense - exactly what you want for metering. It's a real pleasure to work with. Set your Uniflow and go. It's that easy.

I will keep my TiteGroup (now, slightly over 3 #'s). And it will get used. It's not likely I'll buy more. But it has its use. And whatever I'm loading with TiteGroup, I'm not loading with other powders that I more highly covet (like W231/HP-38 )

Okay I've rambled on enough. I just wanted to get that out there for general information. And also to get others' opinions of TiteGroup.

 

[Shotgun Slim]

I shoot only 40 s&w. In the worst of the Obama powder shortage I gave my Titegroup away. That's my opinion of it.

 

[Xfire68]

I have loaded it up in 9mm and 45 LC and did not particularly like it in either one. In 9mm it had a snappy recoil and report was loader than other powders. Switched back to Power Pistol and Unique for 9mm.

I have a big jug of it sitting in the reloading room that will likely never get used up.

 

[BigJimP]

I like TiteGroup ...its my go to powder...in 9mm, .40 S&W, .45 acp - and .38 spl, .357 Mag and .44 Mag.../ it meters very consistently.

The only downside to it ...is you have to be careful with it because min and max on a lot of loads are 0.3gr or 0.4 gr apart...but other than that, I try to keep at least 16 lbs of it on hand all the time ( I shoot about 25,000 handgun rounds a year...and most of it in 9mm, .45 acp and .357 Mag...

 

[g.willikers]

For some reason there seems to be more Hodgdon powders available than any others.
So, for a long time, now, I've mostly used their stuff.
231, Clays, or Titegroup, whatever was on the shelves.
For the usual handguns, there really doesn't seem to be a big difference.
They all do about the same job and well enough that there's been no reason to change.

 

[Mike38]

I have very good results with Titegroup in 9mm and .45acp. Even on the low side.

Only once did I have a problem, and it was my own stupidity. I loaded 9mm 122gr LTC with 4.6 grains of Titegroup, meant to be 3.6gr. I was in +P with lead bullets. Not good.

 

[Nick_C_S]

4.6 grains of Titegroup, meant to be 3.6gr.

That little bit of slowness that TG has may have been the difference between a +P lead round and a dismantled gun.

Good thing it wasn't Bullseye.

 

[gunfighter48]

I used Tite Group for 45 Colt and 45ACP. I liked it for both calibers. Shot it in 45 Colt for about 5 years doing Cowboy Action Shooting. Did very well for that.

 

[Sevens]

I just can't understand why you keep suggesting that it is slower rather than faster. It has some of the smallest published charge weights of anything on the market, a genuine calling card of a fast burning powder.

I can't stand the physical heat it gives off in .38, because it makes my revolver cylinders too hot to the touch for ejection. But I do like the idea that I can make it work in MANY places if I were forced to.

 

[Pathfinder45]

It's a fast burning pistol powder. I use it in 45 Colt and get very similar results as Red Dot. 250 grain cast bullets at 840 fps with excellent accuracy; what's not to like? It's a great target powder for 45 Colt. There are better powders for higher velocity, of course.

 

[Mobuck]

Unless I find a can of RedDot that I forgot about, TG is the "fastest" powder I have on hand. Most of mine is AA#7 and slower.

 

[Nick_C_S]

I just can't understand why you keep suggesting that it is slower rather than faster.

Because it is. At least, how I define the term.

I purchased TG intending to use it for target/competition ammunition for 38 Special. I need 148gn DEWC's (lead and plated) to go 710 f/s for IDPA; and 158gn SWC's (lead and plated) to go 760 f/s for ICORE. (And the ammo I shoot at competitions is also the ammo with which I practice - so these recipes are also range fodder.)

TiteGroup will run sooty when turned down to all these applications - except the 158 plated. The 158 plated round (3.9gns - runs 768 f/s) seems to get into the window where it runs fairly clean. Everything else just has too low of a charge to run clean.

Contrast that with Bullseye (B'eye is always a bit "residuey" - but that's an aside), or Nitro 100, or VV N-310, where they run clean and show good pressure (minimal gas blow back around the case mouth) at these low velocities. These propellants display faster burn rate characteristics than TG in this application(s).

BTW, W231/HP-38 gets a little wonky down at this level too - but not as much as TG. And AA#2 shows clear signs of underpressure - like TG - just not with the soot. AA#2 leaves behind this greenish-yellow "sand" when it's running under-pressured.

Sevens, it has also been my experience that TG seems to burn hot (thermally). Which is another concern in terms of laying down lead in the barrel (I haven't conducted extensive leading tests).

Now TG does seem run consistent when it's under-pressured - I'll give it that (so does AA#2, btw). But I prefer not to deal with soot and charge hole fouling caused by gas blow-back. My gun's charge holes need to stay clean enough for the rounds to drop right in during competitions.

Of the "fast" powders I use, from my personal experience, the burn rates seem to go in this order:
Nitro 100 & VV 310 (tie); Bullseye; W231/HP-38; AA#2; and finally TiteGroup. From there, they go into the "intermediate" speed powders. IMO, if TG was any slower, I'd classify it as an intermediate speed powder.

 

[raysmithson1]

I use it for my shotgun , shoot trap, use eighteen gr. good powder twelve ga.