Feeding the Garand

mapsjanhere

New member
The long package under the tree had a Garand in it :). I remember reading on several occasion that the typical Garand ammo was not as powerful as today's 30-06 loads, and can stress op rods and other parts. Does anyone have a preferred load specifically for shooting the Garand?
 

closetgunnut

New member
Congratulations on being a Garand owner! What a great Christmas present!!!!

Hornady's 7th edition has a Garand specific section. It lists:

C.O.L. - 3.185"

H-4895 starting at 43.2 with a max of 46.4 for a 150gr FMJ. and

Varget Starting at 42.3 with a max of 46.2 for a 150gr FMJ.

There are other powders listed but those are the most common.

I remember reading on several occasion that the typical Garand ammo was not as powerful as today's 30-06 loads, and can stress op rods and other parts.
That is correct, you have to use powders in a specific range. (I.E. H-4895, varget, IMR4064, IMR 4895, ect.

Enjoy your piece of History!!

Merry Christmas,
Tim
 

4runnerman

New member
Ok NO bad thoughts here,just some one that is wondering,, Why do people buy these old guns?. I shoot every weekend and i see more and more every time. Is there some kind of nastalgia or something about these guns?.Is it something about taking a step back in time?. I did some reading on them and i have to say the popularity of them is not outdone by anything. They seem to be what almost appears the most popular gun out there. Am i missing something here ?. Do i need to get one of these things too?. Right now all i buy is the lastest ,greatest thing on the market. Please explain this to me.
 

MLeake

New member
I have one SA M1 Garand that I bought through CMP. It is a lot of fun to shoot, and very accurate. Heavy weight and semi action tame the .30-06 nicely. When friends come over, that is the rifle they want to shoot.

To the OP, while you are probably more interested in loading your own, the CMP program sells bulk ammo. I have bought a pretty good amount of Greek surplus ammo from CMP. You can also try Federal Match.
 

mehavey

New member
Why do people buy these old guns?

A 30-06 is a 30-06. (Though in itself shows good judgment.)
A Garand shows not only judgement, but a sense of place and time....

... i.e, Character.

:D
 

4runnerman

New member
Ok maybe i will have to look more closely at one of these things.Like i say everything i read on them is awesome and people really seem to like them:)
 

Tim R

New member
M-2 ball does send a approximate 150 gr FMJ down the bore at a nice pace. It's not that modern '06 is any more powerfull, it's more the burn rate of some of todays powder that reaches it's peak at the wrong place. Powders like IMR 3031, H and IMR 4895, IMR 4064, Varget, W 748 and R-15 and some I forgot are useable in a M-1 Garand. Slow powders like IMR 4350 which I love to use in '06 hunting loads for my bolt gun will bend things in a M-1. My favorite M-1 powder is IMR 4064.

If you don't want to mess with reloading then I would suggest getting some Greek ball from the CMP. I've never shot any Greek which didn't shoot well. I know the Greek shoots better than any of the later Lake City ball.

4Runnerman......are you missing the bus? Yes Sir the M-1 is a fine rifle soaked in history and a hoot to shoot. Find a John C. Garand match and have alots of fun with like thinking people.
 
Mapsjanhere,

Yes, lots of Garand loads out there. The Hornady's are super-mild. Well below what was being shot even two decades ago. I recommend you go to Wolfe Publishing's web site and find their back issue page and find Handloader #114, March-April, 1985 (the Wolfe links are mislabeled April-May, but it's the same issue). John Clark's article on Page 30 has a number of match loads listed. Be aware a lot of components have changed since then, so you want to work up to his load levels carefully.

Hornady makes a commercial match load for the Garand featuring their 168 grain A-max bullet. It is, by all reports, a good shooting round if you can afford it. Otherwise, surplus M2 ball (if you can find any) and HXP ball (CMP) are your best choices for commercially rolled.

One change since Clark's article was written is the CCI #34 military-hard primer is recommended to help mitigate the chances of getting a slamfire. Like military primers, this is a magnum primer (the military uses them to maintain adequate ignition in extreme cold) and they do help a ball powder to ignite better, if you use one. The main thing with these primers is to seat them deeply enough. Many people don't and that promotes slamfires. They should be between 0.003" and 0.005" below flush with the lip of the primer pocket. This is a slight crush fit.

To test for adequate primer seating depth, set a flat screwdriver blade over the primer pocket that spans it lip to lip, and make sure a narrow strip of standard typing paper feeler may will slip between the primer and the blade without interference. I used to suggest just laying a straight edge across the case, but I've noticed that resizing often bends the rim back slightly, which would raise a straight edge enough to give you a false OK on seating depth. The rims of new brass are often bent back a little, too, from forming, so if you check new loads to compare, the screwdriver blade is still best. After awhile you will learn what a properly seated primer feels like to your finger.

Powders for the Garand must not be slower than medium burning rate or they produce excessive gas port pressure. IMR 4320 is usually the slowest powder recommended, However, a ball powder called WC852 was developed for M2 ball ammo and is sold in canister grade for reloaders by Hodgdon as H380, and Hodgdon shows it's even slower than IMR 4320. So I'm not sure the old rule is entirely right. If you have a new op-rod, this powder should be OK. But if you want your op-rod to last a long time or if it is used and has carbon caked up under the piston (which often covers up tube corrosion) I would go with something faster.

Slower powders can be safely fired in the Garand even with a less that robust op-rod if you use a vented gas cylinder plug to drop that excess pressure. Brownells sells a couple of kinds. However, they won't be allowed in a service rifle matches as they violate the outward appearance rule, and in the John C. Garand matches, they also violate the as-issued rule.

In addition to John Clark's loads for 150 grain bullets, I have recently been using Vihtavuori N135 powder. This stuff is not cheap, but it's clean burning, has enough bulk to fill the case better than most suitable Garand powders, and it produces lower gas port pressure than IMR4895. Vihtavuori's manual lists 45.8 grains to 49.8 grains for a 150 grain bullet, but their COL is a little longer. This is with a Lapua case and a standard large rifle primer.

For match shooting, using the #34 primer and a Lake City case and the 150 grain Hornady FMJ seated to Hornady's 3.185" COL (correct cannelure placement at the case mouth), my particular rifle has been running well with both the 45.8 grain starting load of N135 and with about 48.8 grains (when I want to shoot to 600 yards). N135 is a short cut extruded grain that meters well in the Lee Perfect measure as well in my extruded grain go-to measure, the JDS Quick Measure. The 48.8 grain load fills the case to the bottom of the shoulder even after some tapping to settle it. Obviously, you need to test this load for yourself to get an accuracy read.

The other load not in the article and that I usually mention for completeness is a load that mimics the last DCM purchased lot of M72 Match ammunition. This mimic load is, a Lake City case, CCI #34 primer, Sierra 175 grain MatchKing bullet, and 46.5 grains of IMR 4895 seated to a COL of 3.330".
 

mapsjanhere

New member
Thanks a lot for all the good advise and load recommendations. Heading out the to range with a bandoleer full of clips to check it out and make brass.
 

golfnutrlv

New member
To the OP, YOu have lots of good Garand info thus far. I recently acquired my first Garand, and I have been testing loads.

I started with Varget, 46.0 grains, with Hornady 150gr FMJ, and 168gr BTHP Match. I have had better accuracy thus far with the 168's though.

To 4Runnerman, (I don't mean to hijack a thread, but had to post this)
I recently wrote this short blurb up on another thread in this forum. Link to it here: http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=433239
This is my take in the M1 Garand for me, again, just meant purely for your enjoyment and understanding.

Hi everyone, recently recieved my Springfield M1 Garand from the CMP! I'm Loving it, SO GLAD I WENT AFTER ONE!!

Rifle is a Springfield reciever, H&R Bolt and barrel. Most of the other parts are Springfield far as I can tell. The Stock is a CMP replacement, I would have preferred an original, but obviously it was replaced for a reason Serial number puts it at November 1943.

I really cannot put into words how proud I am to own this rifle. Not just from a Second Amendment perspective, but owning a true piece of American History. It is especially meaningful for me because American History, especially World War II is one of my favorite subjects. This rifle is an icon, of a generation of American's who gave their lives to defend my freedom, so that I could one day prosper and have the life I do. A fact that is ignored all too often by American's these days. Never forget what a privilege it is to be an American! Most importantly, never forget those who gave all for our country, and thank them at every opportunity.
 

bamaranger

New member
finest battle instument ever devised

runner


The above is part of a George Patton (as in General) quote regards the M1 rifle. It sets the tone for the whole issue you touch w/ your question.

The M1 was the worlds first successful semi battle rifle. When the other combatants sent their young (and not so young) men off to war in WWII with the same bolt rifles their Daddy's had fought with, the US, once it got war production started, utilized the Garand. Rugged, reliable and accurate, it took a whole new generation of weapons to (possibly) eclipse it.

Throughout WWII, the other nations played catch up for a semi rifle, but nobody equaled the M1.

The Garand went on to Korea, and no doubt a few fought in US hands as well in Viet Nam. Several million US soldiers relied on it, learned it and carried them in harms way, all over the world.

When I hold a war production era M1 rifle in my hands, my first thought is, where has this rifle been, what has it seen?

That I can purchase, own and fire that icon is a tribute to those vets.
 

45lcshooter

New member
keep the loads under 150gr bullet. I got my first Garand back in September, and im itching for another one. They are fun just to sit as a wall hanger or in a cabinet or safe. I taken mine out to the range with me and shot 1 clip out of it and put it back in the case. Its not a gun that im going to shoot very often, but just let it do what it was made to do. Garands are great, im a WW2 reenactor so im around them all the time, and when i got mine i was extacit! Congrads on the Garand christmas present!!!!
 

Buzzard Bait

New member
call and ask why

The current occupant of the white house just blocked the import of some of these fine rifles back into the states you should call and rain on your congressman and ask why the law abiding citizens were denied these rifles.
bb

I know this is the reloading section and my comment is political but every thing is politics and reloading will end when politicians ban all freedoms one at a time.
sorry can't resist
 
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