FC Headstamp

Bucksnort1

New member
A little over one year ago, I was sorting 223 brass by head stamp. I came across some Federal cases with the following head stamp: 223, FC and a two digit date. I posted a question about this wondering if this is a mil spec case. Before posting this thread, today, I did a quick search and quickly learned I would be at the computer for a week or so reading all the posts looking for my question.

So, to save time, will someone tell me if these cases are ok to shoot in my 223 Savage?
 

603Country

New member
223 brass is 223 brass, though there are minor variations in cases from various makers of the brass. What you have may have a primer crimp that needs to be removed when you reload it.
 

Jimro

New member
Yes, they are fine to use in your Savage.

Just process to remove primer crimp, full length resize, and do a normal load workup. I like to sort be year, although I'll mix years if I need to fill out a lot, but I will test every year date in the load workup.

Should be good brass that lasts until the primer pocket gets loose.

Jimro
 

Bucksnort1

New member
Now that you mention the primer crimp, that is the same response I received last year. What is the significance in the two digit year marking other than to indicate the year it was made? If my memory serves me correctly, it seems someone said, in the earlier thread, that because FC places the year, those are military spec cases but then, why would they include 223 when the military designation is 5.56? I don't think I've ever seen an LC case with 5.56 on the head but then, I operate under two rules.

Rule one - I'm always right.

Rule two - if I'm wrong, see rule one.
 

Bucksnort1

New member
Jimro,

Your end of comment statement about machine guns is accurate. You could apply that to the 81mm mortar baseplate, not to mention the barrel. I always volunteered to carry the aiming stakes but it never worked out that way - see rule one.
 

JeepHammer

Moderator
FC with the last two digets of the year they were made,
Example: FC 12 is Federal Cartridge, 2012.
These are most probably GOVERNMENT production run.

Homeland Security, Police force, ect use a ton of brass stamped 223 instead of having the circle with cross inside that indicates NATO 5.56 loads.

There is no difference in SIZE of the fired brass if the date is '12' or newer.
Older NATO (Circle/Cross) brass stamped LC might have slightly thicker case walls, but the external size is still the same.

A corporation called ATK owns Federal, and runs Lake City,
As a 'Weight Saving' measure, the government agreeded to let ATK make military/government brass to exactly the same specification as 'Civilan' .223 brass, mostly to fill a 4.5 Billion round contract.
 

cw308

New member
I reload FC ( Federal Cartridge ) in 308cal. FC brass is thicker, safe to start out loading1.grain less then your listed charge do to less inside case space, then work up if you have to. I like the FC brass better then Rem., Win. & Hornady
 

F. Guffey

New member
I did a quick search and quickly learned I would be at the computer for a week or so reading all the posts looking for my question

I believe it would be easier to find the answer. I sort by head stamp then organize the cases in drawers. I took a picture of 2 drawers of 223/5.56 NATO cases then weighed the picture. The picture weighed 225 pounds.

FC 5.65 NATO is military. If I remove the primer I remove the crimp. The reason, in my scheme I have once fired cases, the once fired cases have the primer with the crimp. Cases without primers have the crimp removed but are only once fired.

F. Guffey
 
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JeepHammer

Moderator
If your pictures weigh 225 pounds, you should consider something besides that Fred Flintstone camera where the bird chisels the picture in stone! ;)
 
JeepHammer nailed it.

Headstamps like that from Federal Cartridge apparently most often started out as government contracts and were sold in the civilian market as over runs.

But, Federal has also sold a lot of non contract production ammo so marked, as well. From what I can tell, they most often make/sell it that way on their mil-spec type FMJ ammo.
 

Jimro

New member
If my memory serves me correctly, it seems someone said, in the earlier thread, that because FC places the year, those are military spec cases but then, why would they include 223 when the military designation is 5.56?

It's a case of multiple standards. Military ammunition is loaded to US Government or NATO standards (5.56x45, and civilian ammunition is loaded to 223 Rem SAAMI standards.

FC and two digit date is a military contract for sure, FC with 223 Rem is a civilian run for sure. I haven't seen any FC brass with both a date stamp and 223 Rem stamp on it, but if anyone has some that would be cool to see.

The 223 Rem headstamp just means that the brass was formed and loaded to SAAMI 223 Rem standards for civilian or non-military agency use. The same way a 308/7.62x51 with the headstamp "FC LR 12" would be Mk316 match/sniper brass manufactured in 2012, which would be very similar to the Federal Gold Medal Match brass labeled "FC 308 Win." For all intents and purposes Mk316 and Fed GMM are interchangeable from an end user standpoint, but the ammunition is made for different markets to different standards.

I hope this didn't confuse you more.

Jimro
 

F. Guffey

New member
I hope this didn't confuse you more.

Not me, I do not have a drawer for 223 and another for 5.65 NATO. I sort by head stamp. My favorite? Cases with the date on the case head. And then there are cases with the word 'MATCH' or national match or NM. After firing they become 'once fired'.

F. Guffey
 
I think JeepHammer had it right. FC + ## + 223 is non-military government contract brass. Public sector, not private commerce (commercial). Various federal, state, county, and municipal police agencies use military gear (FBI HRC, SWAT teams, etc.) so they want their ammo to meet military pressure, gas port pressure, and velocity specs for functionality, but probably don't need full mil-spec qualification testing done that adds cost. For example, testing down to -65°F, or using full mil-spec primers. Lots of added expense is involved in meeting the full mil spec.
 

JeepHammer

Moderator
I'm not always clear on things, but I think most of you got the point.
FC, two digit date code, 223 is how the Homeland contract rolled out,
4.2 Billion rounds in total.
We will be finding them on the ranges for the next 50 years or so...

The Government contract runs produced a crap load of 'Over Run' lot production,
Either off spececification (one round off spec in testing might scrap a production run of 500,000 rounds),
Or rounds that were produced in 'Reserve' to replace any lot that didnt test out.

They MUST ship on time, so some 'Tested/Approved' lots are held in reserve to make up anything that doesn't pass,
Manufacturers can wind up with substantial penelaties if the product doesn't ship on time.

You can buy large boxes of over run rounds head stamped like described above, Federal is selling the reserve lots off fairly reasonably, but most of them are 55 grain FMJ,
They shoot just fine. not exactly a match quality round, but good plinking ammo at a reasonable price, and the quality as good (without polish) as any of the name brand over the counter ammunition.
 

JeepHammer

Moderator
You might also find rounds marked 'GD' with the date code & 223.
These were manufactured by General Dynamics on there part of the government contract.
There are TONS of General Dynamics brass out there, very high quality, that were produced but never loaded.
General Dynamics is the primary supplier to the Canidian military.
 

Bucksnort1

New member
I left out some information in my original post when I asked if they are safe to use in my Savage. What I meant to say is, if I have some of these cartridges, loaded at the factory, are they safe to use in my Savage? In other words, are they loaded to higher pressure mil specs?
 

F. Guffey

New member
"are they loaded to higher pressure mil specs?"

Does anyone measure before and again after? And then there is the generous chamber; what effect does the generous chamber have on pressure?

F. Guffey
 
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Bucksnort1,

The 5.56 and 223 Remington had identical peak pressures when they were introduced, at 52,000 units of pressure by copper crusher. The SS109 developed in Belgium and sent to us measured 6% higher pressure on our style of copper crusher, and when we adopted that round as M855, the 6% higher pressure value was retained. On European equipment, as near as I've been able to learn (still looking into it), the two rounds measure the same pressure, so this difference is an instrumentation artifact. European NATO and 223 ammunition is all loaded to the same pressure as measured on their channel transducer gear, AFAIK. We have stayed with the difference and M855 is loaded to 58,000 psi on the conformal transducer, presumably because the apparent difference carries in it.

In any event, keep in mind maximum proof pressure for your rifle is 148% above the usually given maximum pressure, and your gun has to tolerate that without damage (though not a steady diet of it). Also, that maximum pressure isn't a maximum in the usual sense of being an absolute, not-to-exceed limit. What is given as a maximum pressure in manuals is a number SAAMI calls the Maximum Average Pressure (MAP). It is an average result for a ten round string. Individual rounds within the string can go higher. SAAMI limits that with a spec called Maximum Extreme Variation (MEV) and in a worst case, that would allow one round out of the ten to be 118% of the MAP value. The European CIP limits individual rounds to 115% of MAP. Further, SAAMI allows the average peak pressure for ten rounds to increase as the ammunition lot ages and the bullets get stuck harder into their brass. That allowance is given a different name, being called the Maximum Probable Lot Mean (MPLM), and it is 106% over MAP in the 223. So if the ammo isn't very old, it should be within the MPLM and be perfectly fine to fire without undue wear. Even if it went over a little, as long as you don't detect sticky case extraction, you should be good to go.

I fully expect you will be fine. I've never heard of a case of gun damage traceable to shooting NATO ammo in a 223. The warning against doing it is more geared toward avoiding long military specialty ammo that could jam in the rifling lands due to the 223 standard chamber's slightly shorter freebore. That could raise pressure another 20% or so if it happened. If it really worries you, you can get a 5.56 chamber reamer run into your existing chamber just far enough to make it match.
 

Jimro

New member
One of the symptoms of "shooting 5.56 in a 223 chamber" is primers popping out into the mechanism of an AR and jamming the trigger up tight. That symptom is better explained by a secondary explosive effect caused by using a bulk grade powder too slow for too light of a bullet causing a pressure wave rebound to hit back into the cartridge brass after the bullet has passed the gas port and the bolt has unlocked. A SEE event can happen even after the bullet has left the muzzle, so it is most likely that this is what "pops" out those crimped in primers and sends them back into the trigger mechanism.

If you aren't shooting an AR or other semi auto rifle, nothing to worry about on that front, the biggest symptom there is sticky extraction or a stuck case.

Jimro
 
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