FBI Firearms

[SPEMack618]

So out of curiosity, say an older FBI agent was to want to continue to carry his S&W 1076, could he? I'm doing a little bit of fiction writing for a class and I sorta like the notion of the older FBI agent still carrying his 1076 because he likes the 10mm round. Any insight into the matter?

 

[silvercorvette]

I don't know the answer, but NY city did allow the older cops to continue carrying their revolvers after they switched to glocks. I don't know how long NY city allowed it or if other departments such as the FBI would do the same thing

 

[kraigwy]

I don't know about the FBI. I know when our department went to autos they still allowed old goats like me to carry revolvers. Apparently they wanted to phase them out because when I retired they let me keep my Model 28.

I think maybe the FBI should go back to revolvers. The Agents I knew, knew how to shoot with revolvers. Funny tactics maybe but they could shoot.

Not so the kids they get now days. I've been to more then one pistol matches where the agents competing seem more interested in how many rounds they could get off then hitting any thing.

They are kind of like the AK Eskimos I use to teach. "They can't shoot good, but they could shoot lots".

 

[Xfire68]

There is a bunch of info on the 1076 on the net including agents were allowed to carry them for some time but, were told to return them eventually.

Being a department "Issue" gun I would think there would either be a option to buy it or not?

 

[retiredcoasty]

I don’t know about the 1076 but you might be able to use the following in your writing:

During the Bush Administration, President Bush signed a law that gave ALL law enforcement officers – active and retired – permission to carry a firearm anywhere in the USA as long as they keep their skills up to date. So an ex-law enforcement officer that can prove that they kept their marksmanship qualifications up-to-date may carry anywhere. But they MUST keep the shooting qualification current.

I found this because, being a Coast Guard officer, I was a law enforcement officer. So, I was trying to figure out if it was legal for me to carry anywhere. I guess all I need is an updated qualification.

 

[TJH3781]

It is a little more complicated than just keeping your qualifications up to date.
You need a certification from your agency that you meet the requirements of LEOSA. You need to qualify with the type of weapon you will be carrying. You need a picture ID stating you are a retired LEO & have met the qualifications set by your state of residence within the last year. Actually, if you read the LEOSA, a picture ID is also required of currently employed LEO's, even those in uniform. Lastly, it states that no LE authority is vested by the law. You better know the laws where you are traveling to & from.

I do not know of any court cases testing LEOSA. However, it could be argued that once you stop, you are no longer in Interstate Commerce. One could run into a District Attorney who decides to make law at your expense. LEOSA, because it is founded on the Fed Gov's Interstate Commerce Supremecy may moot state reciprocity in this matter.

 

[silvercorvette]

It is a little more complicated than just keeping your qualifications up to date.
You need a certification from your agency that you meet the requirements of LEOSA. You need to qualify with the type of weapon you will be carrying. You need a picture ID stating you are a retired LEO & have met the qualifications set by your state of residence within the last year. Actually, if you read the LEOSA, a picture ID is also required of currently employed LEO's, even those in uniform. Lastly, it states that no LE authority is vested by the law. You better know the laws where you are traveling to & from.

You are correct about qualifying with the carry gun, but when I asked the officer that did the qualification he told me it did not matter what gun I shot.

Also when the law was passed it took a long time for departments to get their act together. The department I spent 20 years with and retired from told me that they did not have qualifications set up and when they got around to it I would have to pay the officer a days pay for his time. I never qualified in NY because I was moving to SC. But when I got to SC the officer refused to allow me to buy him lunch to show my gratitude.

I am positive I can legally carry in all 50 states and have never seen any proof otherwise so I will continue to carry until I see proof I can't

By the way I took a picture of the certificate I got (which is not the same one I now carry) and there is no mention of the type of gun on the certificate.

 

[TJH3781]

A retired law enforcement officer needs to carry his photographic identification issued to him by the agency from which he has separated and a document that certifies that he has met, within the most recent twelve month period, the active duty law enforcement standards for qualification for
a firearm of the same type as the one they intend to carry.

Read the law: It requires a certification as to the type of weapon one qualified with.

 

[silvercorvette]

A retired law enforcement officer needs to carry his photographic identification issued to him by the agency from which he has separated and a document that certifies that he has met, within the most recent twelve month period, the active duty law enforcement standards for qualification for
a firearm of the same type as the one they intend to carry.

Read the law: It requires a certification as to the type of weapon one qualified wit

I understand the law and I agree that you are right but if the officer that does the testing does not note the gun that was used to qualify what options does a person have? I did my best to comply with the law and although I am grateful for the law it does pose problems for people that carry more than one gun which I often do. I also can cause problems if the gun is sent in for repair or sold than a new qualification needs to be done for each gun. The law isn't perfect but I am very grateful to have anything that allows me to carry in 50

 

[ClydeFrog]

FBI.gov, FLEOA.org, Tom Clancy...

Since your project is fiction, I don't see any reason why your retired FBI special agent character could still pack his big ole 1076 or 1006 series S&W 10mm.
For R&D and background you may want to check www.Officer.com www.FBI.gov , www.FLETC.gov , or the Federal LE Officers Assoc; www.FLEOA.org .
Well known novel writer; Tom Clancy had FBI agent characters still carrying 10mm 1076s long after "The B" quit using them.
Good background material about real FBI agents includes; Cold Zero, No Heroes and the non fiction books of Robert Kessler(US Army CIDC officer & FBI special agent/ret). John Douglas, a retired FBI profiler, has put out a few books too but he has been discredited by other federal sworn LEOs and his work is highly over-rated & slanted in my opinion, .

ClydeFrog

 

[kraigwy]

I do not know of any court cases testing LEOSA. However, it could be argued that once you stop, you are no longer in Interstate Commerce. One could run into a District Attorney who decides to make law at your expense. LEOSA, because it is founded on the Fed Gov's Interstate Commerce Supremecy may moot state reciprocity in this matter.

That dog wont hunt...............and there was a court case. It occurred in Sturgis SD. Where as an Off duty Seattle cop was in a bar and confronted with some Hells Angels MC dudes (the cop had in the past worked undercover and was responsible for putting some HAs in jail in the Seattle Area). The confrontation resulted in the Cop shooting one of the MC dudes. The County Prosecutor decided to test the law, saying South Dakota law prohibits the carrying of a firearm in a bar. The LEOSA (HR 218) says 'NOTWITHSTANDING" local laws (meaning regardless of). HR218 Says the officer cannot be intoxicated. In this case the cop, though in a bar was not intoxicated. The judge threw out the case stating he, the officer was protected by HR218.

HR218 was amended this year, making it easier for LE and Retired LE to qualify. Now any Certified LE Firearms instructor in any location can qualify the officer in the officers home dept course of fire. The type of gun is a simple matter, if you carry a auto, qualify with an auto, revolver, a revolver.

I carry a 642 and qualify with it, but just for grins, I also qualify with an auto.
I live in Wyoming, but use the Anchorage PD Qualification (the dept. I retired from). Actually its harder then the course of the local sheriffs office which would work also.

Plus, being my Certification is permanent, though I'm retired I can still qualify other officers/retirees using their course of fire.

 

[SPEMack618]

Well, he's not retired, he's the ASAC for OKC, and he is kind of a dinosaur, but the fun literary kind.

It's funny, the main reason I wanted him to carry to 1076 is based on Clancy's Pat O'Day character.

And Cold Zero is a pretty good read.

 

[TJH3781]

Also read the law; it says under the influence, not intoxicated. Either any quantity of alcohol or drugs in your system maybe be construed as under the influence.

The Sturgis case did not address when a travler is no longer in Interstate Commerce. I just threw that into the discussion to see what the climate was on the issue.

 

[kraigwy]

Sec. 926B. Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified law enforcement officers

`(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof, an individual who is a qualified law enforcement officer and who is carrying the identification required by subsection (d) may carry a concealed firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce,

Guns that have been shipped or transported in interstate commerce is pretty much taken care of by that wording.

And going from Seattle WA to Sturgis SD, is interstate. The interstate commerce clause is a catch all, allowing the feds to have a say in any item (gun) transported across state lines. Its the whole comcept of fed gun laws.