FBI email-snooping-agent destroyed e-mail 'cause he "accidentally" saw innocent stuff

papercut

New member
On the FoxReport tonight, Shepard Smith reported that the FBI had interecepted some e-mail from Osama has-been Ladin. According to Smith, the FBI agent who was checking the captured e-mail then discovered that he had also captured e-mail from an innocent third-party who was not the subject of the investigation. Smith went on to say that the agent was so distraught over this that he destroyed all of the e-mail in order to protect the innocent person.

eek13.gif


Nope, I ain't buyin' it. Sorry, but the FBI's record on respecting rights isn't all that stellar. My guess? The agent screwed up and deleted the e-mail by mistake, and the bureau is trying to put a smiley face on it.
 

Cal4D4

New member
C.R. Sam
You don't mean to imply that they are "managing" the news a bit? They got a reputation to protect ya know. :rolleyes:
 

DadOfThree

New member
Don't know if the FBI story is true or not but I know what the rules for the NSA are. If we were copying a foreign transmission and someone identified as an American pops up on the tape, the entire tape had to be destroyed. Not just the part with the American on it. This was a very strict rule not just a nod and wink "Sure we'll destroy it" kind of thing. Don't know if the FBI has the same rules but it is possible.
 

Waitone

New member
I ain't buyin' it either. When was the last time you heard of anything doing with computers having no backup. I got it! Carnivore is a realtime monitor. A set of eyes makes a judgement and the email is magically stored.

Algore made the same claim about emails being lost, deleted, etc. Turned out they could be restored.

This story don't add up.
 

Ironbarr

New member
Couple of stories today...

Carnivore, which has been renamed DCS1000, is a computer program that allows investigators to capture e-mails sent to and from criminal and terrorist suspects. But the newly released memo indicates that, in at least one case, the program also retrieved e-mails from innocent people
Full story: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A24213-2002May28.html

and

Glitch Hurt FBI Case Against bin Laden

By D. IAN HOPPER
AP Technology Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) — An internal FBI memo says agents destroyed evidence gathered in an investigation involving Osama bin Laden's network after its e-mail wiretap system mistakenly captured information to which the agency was not entitled.

The FBI software not only picked up the e-mails of its target ``but also picked up e-mails on non-covered targets,'' said a March 2000 memo to agency headquarters in Washington.

``The FBI technical person was apparently so upset that he destroyed all the e-mail take, including the take on'' the suspect, the memo said.
AP/File [13K]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A Justice Department official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Tuesday night that the e-mails were not destroyed. The official did not elaborate or try to reconcile the statement with the memo.

The episode was described in documents made public through a Freedom of Information Act request filed by the Electronic Privacy Information Center, a Washington advocacy group. The material was not included in an original release but became public after a federal judge ordered the bureau to give out more documents.

At issue was an investigation in Denver in which the FBI's bin Laden unit was using the bureau's Carnivore system to conduct electronic surveillance of a suspect under a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act warrant.

The suspect's name and other information identifying details of the investigation were marked out of the letter.

The memo surfaced as the FBI was addressing concerns it mishandled aspects of terrorism investigation prior to the Sept. 11 attacks. Those concerns include a warning from its Phoenix office about Arab pilots training in the United States last July.

As an outgrowth of that and other much-criticized FBI actions before the attacks, the agency is to form a new office of intelligence and strengthen its oversight of counterterror investigations. Attorney General John Ashcroft and FBI Director Robert Mueller were expected to outline high-profile changes Wednesday at the FBI's headquarters, including closer ties to the CIA and an overhaul of the FBI's outdated computer systems.

FBI officials refused on Tuesday to discuss the Carnivore memo or the investigation it referred to. They did, however, say that the bin Laden unit at FBI headquarters handles only investigations involving suspected activity by his terror network.

The memo shows FBI agents were worried about the fallout in the Denver case.

The Justice Department's Office of Intelligence and Policy Review was furious after learning the evidence captured by the e-mail wiretap system was destroyed because of the glitch, the memo states.

``To state that she was unhappy at ITOS (International Terrorism Operations Center) and the UBL (bin Laden) unit is an understatement,'' the memo stated, quoting a Justice official.

The memo said Justice officials worried the destruction of the evidence would signal an ``inability on the part of the FBI to manage'' the warrants that are key tools in espionage and anti-terrorism cases.

Privacy groups and some members of Congress have complained that Carnivore had the potential to collect more information than allowed by a warrant.

``Here's confirmation of the fact that not only did it do that, but it resulted in a loss of legitimately acquired intelligence,'' said David Sobel, general counsel of EPIC.

To allay Congress's concerns, FBI General Counsel Larry Parkinson testified in July 2000, ``We do not deploy (Carnivore) in a way that exceeds the court order.''

The e-mail from an unnamed author to M.E. ``Spike'' Bowman, the FBI's associate general counsel for national security, said Denver agents installed the e-mail surveillance system in March 16, 2000, but the device did not work correctly.

Henry Perritt, who led a team authorized by the FBI to review the surveillance system, said he was surprised the technician deleted the e-mails.

``The collection is supposed to be retained for judicial review,'' Perritt said. ``If an agent simply deleted a whole bunch of files without the court instructing, that's not the way it's supposed to work.''

Another document released through the privacy group's request explains the bureau's policy for overcollection on a surveillance warrant. The memo, dated just a week after the Denver e-mail, says the e-mails should be kept under seal so that senior FBI officials can figure out how the wiretap went wrong.

The unintended targets of the FBI's snooping may have deserved notification that the mistake was made, the FBI memo said.

Authorities have used Carnivore-type tools more than 25 times in all types of criminal cases, to catch fugitives, drug dealers, extortionists and suspected foreign intelligence agents. Carnivore is now called DCS-1000.
You will have to fish around to find this article within this general URL - http://wire.ap.org/?FRONTID=NATIONAL

-IB
.
 

Thumper

New member
Dad of Three

I tell people the same thing and no one ever believes me. It's hard to get people to let go of their fantasies about what "They" can do.

I assume you were with the ASA/NSA. Were you ever in Augsburg? I spent three years there. Much more fun than the Puzzle Palace. Got stuck in that bureaucracy for awhile, too.

Believe me...if you realized you were accidentally copying an American target, you got off of it pretty quickly.
 

papercut

New member
Thumper, Dad:

Uh-huh. Right. Next, y'all are going to tell me that "Echelon" doesn't exist, either. (With apologies to Rich for drawing scrutiny to his board.) :p
 

Waterdog

Moderator
What a crock!, the feds are doing their best at damage control. Or maybe that's what they want us to think??

Oh!, now they need the CIA to do domestic work, the FBI can't handle all the intel.

BULL****!, the MFs are creating problems that don't exist.

Just another make believe situation, to justify hiring more bureacrats.

With each administration that comes and goes, the
federal monster continues to get bigger.

Bush is no different than Roosevelt or Klinton, he's just another damn elitist seeking to perpetuate the wealth of his masters.

IMHO

Waterdog
 

DadOfThree

New member
Papercut,

I haven't worked at NSA since Dec 92. I don't think Echelon existed then. From what I have heard, the government is playing hard and fast with the rules about recording conversations or e mail from US persons. I think it is still illegal for the US to spy on US citizens but if England or Canada copys US traffic and then gives it to us, and vice versa, then they feel like the rules haven't been broken. :mad: I can only tell you that was not done while I was serving as far as I know.
 
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