Father to Son under 21?

[golf97]

Can my father legally give me a pistol if I'm only 20? I'm in WA, and also in the Army National Guard if that makes a difference. The pistol was something I wanted and had to have him buy for me... we can just say i'm holding and shooting it for him if that makes anyone feel any better. Its just that I shoot M9s on a regular basis, I don't see why I can't own my own pistol. Someone who sounds like they knew what they were talking about said that ATF had a form where he could just gift it to me, and it'd be under my name. I couldn't carry it obviously, but I could and transport it to and from ranges. Please let me know, and tia,
Bryan.

 

[FAL-schutter]

Based on RCW 9.41.240, I'd say yes, you can own one, but by the looks of it, you can't transport it, including to the range. Perhaps if someone over 21 transported it for you and "supervised" you while you shot?

But I am not a lawyer, so don't take my word for anything. Might I suggest you ask your local police or sheriff's department? I've found mine to be quite helpful.

 

[golf97]

Good idea, I'll stop by today and see.

 

[Mark P.]

Short answer, no. You can fire it under his supervision, but he must carry it and it must be in his possession at all times and you may only shoot it in his presence. You may not legally own, carry, possess, or take possession of a handgun under the age of 21, which includes gifts, hand me downs, or anything left to you in a will. Your parent, legal guardian (if under 18) or someone under 21 must take possession of such a weapon until you turn 21.

 

[MEDDAC19]

You may legally own a handgun at age 18. Licensed dealers may only sell long guns to 18 year olds and handguns at 21. There is no problem with your father giving you the pistol. You won't be able to get a CC permit until you are 21, but you sure can own one, and shoot it all you would like.

As far as transport, I think as long as it is unloaded, in a case, and not easily accessible, you should be fine (check WA state's regs). You should also be able to carry it on you when on your own property.

Don't know where previous poster lives that 18 year olds can't even touch a handgun

 

[OnTheFly]

Based on RCW 9.41.240, I'd say yes, you can own one, but by the looks of it, you can't transport it, including to the range. Perhaps if someone over 21 transported it for you and "supervised" you while you shot?

Short answer, no. You can fire it under his supervision, but he must carry it and it must be in his possession at all times and you may only shoot it in his presence. You may not legally own, carry, possess, or take possession of a handgun under the age of 21, which includes gifts, hand me downs, or anything left to you in a will. Your parent, legal guardian (if under 18) or someone under 21 must take possession of such a weapon until you turn 21.

You may legally own a handgun at age 18. Licensed dealers may only sell long guns to 18 year olds and handguns at 21. There is no problem with your father giving you the pistol. You won't be able to get a CC permit until you are 21, but you sure can own one, and shoot it all you would like.

As far as transport, I think as long as it is unloaded, in a case, and not easily accessible, you should be fine (check WA state's regs). You should also be able to carry it on you when on your own property.

golf97,

If you aren't confused...I sure am.

Fly

 

[golf97]

Yeah, I'm a bit confused, but I suppose thats supposed to be expected, especially when its kind of a state specific thing. I really need to just ask the local Sheriffs department when I get a chance.

 

[Abstract]

Short answer, no. You can fire it under his supervision, but he must carry it and it must be in his possession at all times and you may only shoot it in his presence. You may not legally own, carry, possess, or take possession of a handgun under the age of 21, which includes gifts, hand me downs, or anything left to you in a will. Your parent, legal guardian (if under 18) or someone under 21 must take possession of such a weapon until you turn 21.

Mark, unless you're speaking specifically to Washington's state laws, then I'd have to opine that you're opining with an air of great authority on a subject about which you know little-to-nothing.

 

[Let it Bleed]

18 USC § 922(x) (2005).

(x)(1) It shall be unlawful for a person to sell, deliver, or otherwise transfer to a person who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe is a juvenile -

(A) a handgun; or

(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.

(2) It shall be unlawful for any person who is a juvenile to knowingly possess -

(A) a handgun; or

(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.

(3) This subsection does not apply to -

(A) a temporary transfer of a handgun or ammunition to a juvenile or to the possession or use of a handgun or ammunition by a juvenile if the handgun and ammunition are possessed and used by the juvenile -

(i) in the course of employment, in the course of ranching or farming related to activities at the residence of the juvenile (or on property used for ranching or farming at which the juvenile, with the permission of the property owner or lessee, is performing activities related to the operation of the farm or ranch), target practice, hunting, or a course of instruction in the safe and lawful use of a handgun;

(ii) with the prior written consent of the juvenile's parent or guardian who is not prohibited by Federal, State, or local law from possessing a firearm, except -

(I) during transportation by the juvenile of an unloaded handgun in a locked container directly from the place of transfer to a place at which an activity described in clause (i) is to take place and transportation by the juvenile of that handgun, unloaded and in a locked container, directly from the place at which such an activity took place to the transferor; or

(II) with respect to ranching or farming activities as described in clause (i), a juvenile may possess and use a handgun or ammunition with the prior written approval of the juvenile's parent or legal guardian and at the direction of an adult who is not prohibited by Federal, State or local law from possessing a firearm;

(iii) the juvenile has the prior written consent in the juvenile's possession at all times when a handgun is in the possession of the juvenile; and

(iv) in accordance with State and local law;

(B) a juvenile who is a member of the Armed Forces of the United States or the National Guard who possesses or is armed with a handgun in the line of duty;

(C) a transfer by inheritance of title (but not possession) of a handgun or ammunition to a juvenile; or

(D) the possession of a handgun or ammunition by a juvenile taken in defense of the juvenile or other persons against an intruder into the residence of the juvenile or a residence in which the juvenile is an invited guest.

(4) A handgun or ammunition, the possession of which is transferred to a juvenile in circumstances in which the transferor is not in violation of this subsection shall not be subject to permanent confiscation by the Government if its possession by the juvenile subsequently becomes unlawful because of the conduct of the juvenile, but shall be returned to the lawful owner when such handgun or ammunition is no longer required by the Government for the purposes of investigation or prosecution.

(5) For purposes of this subsection, the term "juvenile" means a person who is less than 18 years of age.

(6)(A) In a prosecution of a violation of this subsection, the court shall require the presence of a juvenile defendant's parent or legal guardian at all proceedings.

(B) The court may use the contempt power to enforce subparagraph (A).

(C) The court may excuse attendance of a parent or legal guardian of a juvenile defendant at a proceeding in a prosecution of a violation of this subsection for good cause shown.

The confusion stems from 18 USC §922(b)(1) which states:
(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver -

(1) any firearm or ammunition to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than eighteen years of age, and, if the firearm, or ammunition is other than a shotgun or rifle, or ammunition for a shotgun or rifle, to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than twenty-one years of age;

 

[golf97]

I'm over 18, but if someone under 18 can do all of the above it shouldn't be a problem I wouldn't think. I just want to know that I can legally posses the pistol in my appt., without my father being here.

 

[OnTheFly]

When I was trying to find out the basic laws in my state, I went to the NRA website, but all I got from it was "Unknown" about several details. So I went to the Brady Bunch website. Those folks were really helpful with the information. They told me I could have high cap mags and all sorts of good stuff. Thanks Brady Bunch!

Of course, as said before, check with your local Sheriff's office. They were pretty helpful in NE.

 

[pax]

Okay, these folks aren't on our side, but they have a very helpful website: www.lcav.org.

Short answer: you're fine in WA. Other states, other problems.

pax

 

[golf97]

I'm fine with what? Owning it?

 

[golf97]

Section 9.41.240 provides that, unless one of the above exceptions or an exception pursuant to sections 9.41.050 or 9.41.060 applies, persons who are at least 18 years of age, but under age 21 may possess a handgun only:

* In the person's "place of abode;"

* At the person's fixed place of business; or

* On real property under his or her control.

Sweet, thanks for the link above.

Now what do I have to do to take possession from my father? Is it fine if he has just informally given it to me? Should I just draft up a memorandum of understanding?

 

[MEDDAC19]

Unless WA state has some sort of registration requirement, I don't think so, just say thanks Dad.

 

[golf97]

Well I paid for it lol. But I am thankful that he purchased it for me.

 

[Double J]

Golf 97, Please don't say that. Could be looked at as a "straw purchase".
Just kidding. But it does show how complicated simple things can get. Have fun.

 

[golf97]

Thank you. I try and be as careful as I can with my word use, but I figured I wouldn't have any problems on here.

 

[Let it Bleed]

In 1980, the BATF published written guidelines for firearms dealers, detailing the meaning of "Straw Man Transaction." The BATF explained that it was all right for one person to purchase a gun on behalf of a second person, "as long as the ultimate recipient is not prohibited from receiving or possessing a firearm." In 1984 and 1988, BATF published similar guidelines.

In 1995, BATF changed the guidance, and instructed dealers that a straw purchase also includes sales in which both the initial buyer and the ultimate recipient could legally purchase and possess firearms.



A straw purchase occurs even when the actual purchaser is not a prohibited person. The crime committed is knowingly making a false statement on the Form 4473 indicating that the straw purchaser is the actual purchaser, when this is not the case.

Purchasing a firearm as a gift for someone, who is not prohibited from possessing said firearm, is completely legal. The distinction is that the buyer can truthfully complete the form 4473 to indicate that he is the actual purchaser because he would take title to the weapon and then transfer the firearm as a gift.

 

[JuanCarlos]

So, provided that the firearm is simply "a gift" (which may or may not coincide closely with a similarly valued "gift" to the father) you'd be fine?