Fast-twist .223 Bolt-Action Rifles

[Achilles11B]

Kicking around building a .223 bolt-action rifle with the intention of shooting at long distances (500-700 yards). I'm in the process of reloading for .223 and will be testing some 75gr loads through my AR. I'd like to keep the logistics simple, and if the 75's work with the AR, I'd like to find a good rifle with a 1/7 twist.

Herein lies the problem. On most of the .223 bolt-action rifles I've looked at, the rate of twist is 1/9. Are there any good 1/7 barrels out there? Or am I going about this all wrong?

Also, I'm fully aware that I could easily find a 1/7 upper for the AR, but...I don't have a good centerfire bolt gun and while the long-upper path makes more sense, it's not more fun, and that's what I'm going for here.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Dave Anderson]

The Tikka T3 in .223 Rem. is cataloged as being available in either a 1-12 or a 1-8 twist. Most Savages are 1-9, but the model F/TR is shown on their web site as having a 1-7 twist.

Currently I've been experimenting with a Ruger Hawkeye All-Weather model in .223 with a 1-9 twist. It shoots very well (around 0.5 moa) with Black Hills ammo loaded with the Sierra 77 gr. MK bullet. I haven't yet tried the 75 Hornady A-Max.

1-9 seems to be kind of "on the bubble" as regards 75 - 77 gr. bullets. Stability is a factor of bullet length, of course, not weight, and it seems some rifle/bullet combos in the 75 - 77 gr, range work and others don't.

I have a nice Remington 700 .223 with 1-12 twist, if I ever get around to getting a custom barrel on it I'll specify a 1-8 twist.

 

[taylorce1]

You can look around a few years ago Remington was offering a M700 .223 in 1:7 twist. Savage would surely be the cheapest and fastest way to it if you wanted to build your own.

 

[Achilles11B]

Maybe some of you Savage owners can help me on this one. You can change out the barrels on Savage rifles, correct? As in without the services of a gunsmith?

Reason I'm asking is because I found a company that builds custom Savage barrels, and they offer a 1:7 twist.

 

[10-96]

Kicking around building a .223 bolt-action rifle

Not to sound like a ****, but if you're going to build one- why not pull all the stops and look at some place like Lilja, Douglas, Krieger, or Hart barrel makers? You can pretty well dictate, the number of grooves, twist, contour, AND length.

EDIT: Never mind- I see you're already thinking along those lines.

 

[Nathan]

Maybe some of you Savage owners can help me on this one. You can change out the barrels on Savage rifles, correct? As in without the services of a gunsmith?

Reason I'm asking is because I found a company that builds custom Savage barrels, and they offer a 1:7 twist.

Without a machinist, yes. You or a gunsmith will still need to install it correctly and set the headspace. You will need some skills and specialized tools to get this right.

 

[Achilles11B]

Ah, got it. I'm an Armalite armorer, is the process for changing a barrel on a Savage similar to the AR? Research time, here we go.

Also, I'd love to hear from anyone with experience with this. Thanks again.

 

[Jim Watson]

Barrel change on a Savage is not difficult. A friend and I put Pac-Nor prefit barrels on ours with no trouble at all.
You need a barrel vise, the Savage nut wrench, and a GO headspace gauge.
Remove stock and bolt.
Apply the nut wrench, clamp the barrel, hit nut wrench with a hammer to break it loose. (I saw a picture of the Savage factory assembler tightening that nut with about a four foot cheater on the Official Nut Wrench.)
Loosen nut, unscrew old barrel, remove nut and recoil lug.
Clean receiver threads and apply some anti-seize compound.
Put nut and recoil lug on the new barrel turned well in past operating position. (We used new surface ground recoil lugs instead of the stamped factory piece, but we were also going to rebed the stock.)
Screw the barrel most of the way into the action.
Insert the bolt with ejector and extractor removed. Chamber the GO gauge.
Screw the barrel the rest of the way in against the GO gauge. Headspace will now be minimum spec. Screw down the nut, aligning the recoil lug properly.
Remove bolt and gauge, apply wrench and tighten the nut firmly hand tight. No need for a hammer or cheater, it isn't going to run off.
Reassemble and go shooting.

Tightening the nut pulls the barrel into the threads and adds about .0015" to the minimum headspace produced by screwing it up against the gauge. If you get nervous about such stuff, you can double check with GO and No-Go gauges, but we just went shooting. I have been using the same lot of brass with neck sizing ever since, no unusual stretching or hint of casehead separation.
Said friend shot that barrel out and is now on his third on that action. He had this one gunsmith installed a la Remington without nut. But he was getting a high grade barrel not available prefit anyhow.

 

[Beentown71]

A longer barrel with the same amount of twist will allow you to shoot a heavier load easier so 1 in 9 may work just fine. Your AR with a 16" barrel and the bolt has let's say a 24" version should both shoot the heavier bullet.

 

[Achilles11B]

The term 'may' kind of makes me uneasy, I don't want to find out that I just bought a rifle that patterns my ammo instead of grouping it.

Mr. Watson, out of curiosity, how long did the process take?

 

[M_E_]

Unless you want to spend the $$$ to assure yourself tight groups, it's a crap shoot. I wouldn't get a chambered 223, I'd get the 556 NATO chamber. A 1/8 twist should suite you fine. As far as a barrel maker, Gary Schneider makes a polygonal rifled barrel in any twist you want. These are the best barrels available. We use them on all of out long range tactical rifles.

 

[Jim Watson]

Mr. Watson, out of curiosity, how long did the process take?

We did two in about half a day, with lunch break and a good deal of feeling our way. The next one would go faster. Some people accumulate a selection of Savage barrels and flip-flop them every week.

 

[taylorce1]

Swaping out the barrel on a Savage is fairly easy and Jim did a good job of describing the process. I really screw the barrel on tight against the go-gauge that way when I tighten the barrel nut I never have to worry about headspace. I've never had the bolt close more than 1/4-1/3 of the way on the no-go gauge doing it this way.

I don't use a barrel vise, I either use an action wrench I borrow off of my buddy since we split the cost. Or I have a 4" vise I padded the jaws on with some leather to hold the action to remove the barrel nut. I've been lucky and have been able to remove the barrel nuts without having to use excessive force.

 

[tulsamal]

Standard twist on a Tikka T3 .223 is 1-8". I have a Tikka Tactical in .223 and it didn't really "wake up" on the shooting line until I started shooting the heavy bullets. It loves the Sierra 77 grain OTM bullets the best of all. My load development with that rifle now pretty much consists of trying different powders and loads with that bullet. Doesn't seem to be much point in trying other ones! That Tikka barrel will shoot those Sierra match bullets into some tiny groups. And the great factory trigger doesn't hurt anything.

Gregg

 

[Achilles11B]

Thanks for the help, everyone. It's really appreciated. This is why I love this forum so much, lots of experienced guys in lots of different fields.

I figured if I got to the point where I could try for 1000 yards (my friend's family has a farm, LOTS of open space for distance shooting), I could try out 80-90gr bullets to buck wind. I've heard good things about Tikka rifles and that could simplify the process with a suitable factory rifle. Would a long-barreled (24" or so) 1:8 rifle provide enough stabilization for bullets on the heavy side of the .223 spectrum?

 

[Mobuck]

A longer barrel with 1 in 8 twist might allow the use of heavier bullets by increasing the velocity to a sufficient level.
A longer slow twist barrel will not stabilize significantly heavier bullets than a shorter one( like 24" vs 20") simply by virtue of it's increased length.

 

[Jim Watson]

An 8 twist is ok for 80 grain bullets, probably not for 90.
I have a 90 grain rifle - 6.5 twist - and think it might be less efficient than a faster 80 grain. I understand the ballistician at Berger prefers a 75 gr VLD at screaming velocity versus anything heavier.

 

[Achilles11B]

I had never heard that. I figured the heavier bullets would be optimal.

Great, now I have to do more research on guns and reloading components. Terrible.

 

[Dave Anderson]

In my post #2 above I mentioned that my Ruger 77 Hawkeye 1-9 twist would stabilize the 77 gr. SMK, but hadn't yet tried the longer 75 Hornady A-Max.

The 77 gr. Sierra bullet is 0.994" long, the A-Max about 1.1" long.

In my rifle the 77 gr. Sierra (factory Black Hills) clocked at 2,775 fps. I finally got to the range today with some reloads using the 75 A-Max, chronographed @ 2,800 fps.

The Hornady A-Max bullet stabilized and gave excellent accuracy in the Ruger's 1-9 twist. According to the JBM Ballistics for iPad program remaining velocity would be 1,170 fps at sea level, and 1,220 fps at an altitude of 1,715 feet above sea level, where I was shooting.

So the bullet should stay supersonic (barely!) at 1,000 yards. While it seems the 1-9 twist in my rifle is adequate for this long bullet I'd still specify 1-8 if I was ordering a custom barrel, just to have a few rpms in reserve.

 

[TimW77]

Why not just buy a Savage rifle with a 1:7" twist barrel already installed?

T.