Fast draw/quick draw

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BlueTrain

New member
Anyone here still interested in fast draw with a handgun? Many of us grew up reading gun magazines with articles about fast draw with a single action and also articles by lawmen, mostly Border Patrol, it seems, and by Elmer Keith, all of whom were greatly interested in fast draw with their sixgun.

At the time, there was some distinction between fast draw and quick draw, one being a competitive thing using blanks, the other with live ammuntion. The one with live ammo was actually closer to trick or exhibition shooting, since that is about what it amounted to, as practiced. Bill Jordan comes to mind here. There were illustrated articles now and then showing a man drawing from beneath his coat, again with a revolver. Only Gaylord showed fast draw with an automatic. This was about the time Cooper entered the picture.

For my purposes, I am including both revolvers and automatics (but not single shots!) and only referring to the use of "practical leather," meaning something you would actually use for everyday wear, not something just for competition. But if you wear a Hollywood holster, that's OK with me.

My interest in shooting and related activities comes and goes over the years and flucuates between one kind of gun and another (I'm just coming out of an anti-tank gun period), so I have not developed any particularly deep interest in the subject, no more than, say, handloading. But all the same, I'll get together all the gear and try a few things, just to keep my hand in, so to speak. It appears to be of some value if you actually have a gun, especially if you carry a gun.

Anyone else willing to admit trying to be faster than you have been?
 
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hso

New member
I had 2 training courses in the past 2 months that have reduced the time it takes me to get from holster to holes on target. Paul Gomez improved my time and Robin Brown jumped it another level.
 
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AK103K

New member
My last two years in high school, I was in a wild west show at a local amusement park. We carried real Colt SAA's loaded with some pretty heavy blanks in our holsters. We always used to practice quick draw or each other, usually with empty pistols, as the blanks would still burn you pretty good at close distance. When you got into the middle of the show, you'd be amazed at how many times that old Colt went off in the holster on a draw. (we learned from the old westerns of the time, by the way, you always cocked the gun first in the holster, thats the way they did it on TV. ;) ) Most all of us had holes burned in our jeans along the side of the leg and just above the knee. That pretty much cured me of wanting to use live ammo in western quick draw at the time. A few years later, with different pistols and better suited holsters, and I didnt mind live ammo at all. :)

I still practice "quick draw" for about ten minutes just about every night now, 33 some odd years later. 32 of that with a slightly different SA. :)
 
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BlueTrain

New member
I am pleased that there is interest in the subject and especially that someone actually practices regularly. I have mentioned before that I believe that short, frequent practice sessions are more productive, but that's another story.

All the early articles on the subject, nearly always from a Western perspective, mention the dangers of the activity. It was nevertheless a very popular sport at one time. That would be the old walk-and-draw competitions. I even remember the subject coming up on one of the old Nelson family TV show. I don't ever recall anything negative on the sport, aside from the dangers of using live ammo. You could buy holster fitted with a steel deflector piece at the bottom. Most of the reall Old West holsters were nothing like the quick draw holsters seen in the TV westerns, mainly because they had to hold the holster in place while the wearer rode horseback. I still like someone's description of the Gabby Hayes draw, where you held the holster down with one hand and drew the gun with the other.

I had two S&W model 624's, one a four inch, the other a six (or 6 1/2) inch barrel. The long barrel model was difficult to use simply because it had a long barrel, though it was otherwise very nicely balanced, and the short barreled one just seemed clumsy and barrel-light. A Model 29 with a 4-inch barrel pointed very nicely but it was anything but light. Funny, because I don't think it weighed much more than a Government Model but the .45 auto just seems like it weighed less. Anyhow, I eventually decided that an S&W Model 13 with a 4-inch barrel or any similiar model was just about perfect for what I had in mind. I have also experimented with S&W DA autos and didn't like them for one reason or another.

I have been playing around with a new Model 10 with both a tapered barrel and round butt (but no lock, though it has a floating firing pin and slots on the hammer for the lock--but no hole in the side). It is relatively easy to wear concealed and is very quick on the draw, or presentation, as some writers like to say, but it still lacks something. Other than the fact it is a .38 Special and not a magnum, it doesn't have the pointability that a heavy barrel K-frame with either a three or four inch barrel has. Admittedly, I haven't tried any of this with live ammuntion because I don't know of any range that will allow it, so the whole thing is theoretical anyway. I have tried wax bullets and although of some value, they also lack the reality factor.

One other thing, Elmer Keith suggested that when practicing fast draw, to leave the first chamber empty so that the first live round will have to be under the second snap of the hammer. Sounds like a good idea.
 
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HSMITH

New member
Kinda sorta I am working on quick draw. I am working on aimed shots from a Kydex holster, the gear I use in IPSC matches.

On a good day in practice I can get down around .75 seconds on a 7 yard target with solid hits, mid to high 8's on a 15 yard target and just over one second on a 25 yard target. Add 3 tenths and that is about what I do from a surrender start (hands up). In the actual matches I seldom push anything below .9 and average about 1.1 second hands down and 1.35-1.4 from surrender.

Hip shooting with the same gear, just for fun, I can get down to .5 or a tiny bit under. I can hit an IPCS metric target somewhere on the target 6 or 7 out of 10 times at 3 or 4 yards at that speed. It is a completely useless skill for me, so I haven't shot 25 shots this way. It WAS fun though, and a good tension breaker. All I shoot is full power 40 with 180JHP ammo so safety is a real concern, I just won't push it any harder than I KNOW I can go with 100% guarantee of being safe.
 
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AK103K

New member
I think the key to a "fast" draw, is not speed, but smooth. That and about a million slow presentations. :)

The wild west thing was always fun, but never really taken seriously. Although I have encountered people in the woods during hunting season(in VA too, by the way) wearing a Hollywood style western holster with a Ruger SA in it. These days, open carry in most places is pretty much frowned upon, especially here in the NE.

Back when I started wearing a pistol, they didnt have the selection of holsters available like they do today. I had a hell of a time finding someone to put "big" sights on my Commander, let alone find a 1911 holster that would accommodate the "big" sights. Everything was made for the little GI type sights, as thats what all the factory guns came with. Then again, back then, you bought Colt, or you bought Colt. :)

Most holsters then were police type belt holsters or vertical shoulder holsters. The Pancake was just becoming popular. Nothing was really geared towards "fast" or real concealment. Thank god thats all over with. :)

The thing that was "hot" soon after that was a "Snick", I just couldnt ever find one around here. It was probably the first plastic holster out there that was for practical carry.

Loved IWB the first time I tried one. I tried the thumb breaks, and quickly cut them off. Stayed with open top leather as things moved along until kydex came along. Kydex changed everything. Smooth, lightning fast draws and no more rusty guns.

I was never much of a revolver person, although I've had and still do have a number of them. The autos always carried and concealed so much better, and were usually easier to shoot well with. I carried a 1911 of some sort, usually a Commander, for about 30 some odd years. I recently went to SIG's, 220, 226, and now the 229. For the most part, I've always carried IWB at about 4 o'clock, regardless what it was I was carrying. At this point, all I have to do is look at something and think "guns" and with no more thought or effort the next thing I see is the front sight is right out there on what I'm looking at.

If you start out slow, and concentrate on each step of the stroke in slow motion, and practice a little everyday, before you know it, it will be as natural to you as breathing. Smooth, proper and deliberate, are everything, speed is secondary and will come. Practice as though the gun is loaded and as if every bit of it was real, including following through at the end and dropping to low ready, checking, and reholstering. The first time you do it with a live round, the only difference with be the report and a nice little hole in the target where you were looking.
 
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BlueTrain

New member
Safety fast, as MG cars used to say.

There also used to be mention of hip shooting way back when and what that meant. However, as far as I am mentioning the subject of a fast draw, I have not mentioned what it is you should do once the gun clears the leather, because that is a whole 'nother subject. It is important, however, and that goes without saying. But I think the topic of actually getting the gun into action is somewhat neglected, in a way. Or so you might think from reading current literature. Not shooting per se, but just making the draw. It is as if that part of the problem is just assumed away. Anyway, I didn't want to get into the shooting style here but just to cover the part about the draw.

But when you think about it, it makes a big difference to other aspects of being armed, such as what kind of gun and how it is to be carried. It follows that you have to hit the target but you miss with 100% of the shots you don't make. So you have to first get the gun out of the holster without dropping it, snagging it on your garments, or coming in second place.

On the subject of the gun again, I have sometimes thought that an S&W model 581 or 681, if I am remembering the right model numbers, would make a well balanced quick draw gun. Those are both L frames and have been replaced with a seven shot model that looks for all the world to be a slightly oversized Model 65. I've seen one but didn't handle it. There is also a heavy barrel Model 60 with a long barrel (also a three inch barrel version) that look promising and aren't too awfully light but they both have fixed sights. But with the right holster they might do.

Pity I can't affort to try out all those different models. I might learn something.
 
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Bullrock

New member
I think the terms "fast draw" and "quick draw" depend upon what part of the country you live in. I have entered a few fast draw competitions back along and did pretty well.

To answer your question about wanting to be faster, yes! Until I turned 70, then I lost some of my interest...:D :D ;)
 
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