Factory Squib loads:Winchester X10MMSTHP (10mm Auto 175 gr. Silvertips)

[kkb]

Hey guys & gals. I bought two boxes of the above ammo (forty rounds) and have found four rounds that did not have powder in them, a 10% manufacturing defect. I've sent an email to Winchester about it, we'll see if they respond.

Anyways, the tale...

While at the range I had a squib that firmly lodged the bullet into the barrel. Fortunately it was so close to chamber subsiquent rounds would not fully feed giving me a clue something was wrong.

Went home and weighed the rest of the rounds. Most weighed >260 grains, but three were ~253 grains - lighter by about what I'd expect the powder charge to be. Opened one of them up and found it devoid of powder.

So if you have these rounds, my lot number is 7X662/041 on both boxes, you might want to check them out.

 

[Jason_G]

While at the range I had a squib that firmly lodged the bullet into the barrel. Fortunately it was so close to chamber subsiquent rounds would not fully feed giving me a clue something was wrong.

I've been lucky enough to never have a squib in any ammo I've ever shot (been shooting rifles since I was big enough to hold one, but I've only recently gotten into handguns). I know it's bound to happen sooner or later with factory ammo. I'm not trying to change the subject, but is it easy to tell by the recoil whether you've fired a squib or not? I would be sick if I shot another round behind a lodged one already in the pipe and ruined my barrel (or myself ). Could you tell immediately by the difference in recoil that the round was undercharged?

Jason

 

[kkb]

Could you tell immediately by the difference in recoil that the round was undercharged?

The difference in recoil didn't register to me as much as the "hey, why's it out of battery" notion.

Then again this is my first 10mm and my first Glock, a G-20, and I only had it out to the range once before shooting a smorgasbord of different loads to see what the gun likes - so I don't have "normal" printed into my pea brain yet.

I/it actually likes Silvertips the best so far with the tightest groups and best expansion in my amature tests.

The only other centerfire pistol I've had squibs in were handloaded 9mm rounds in a CZ P-01 and it was obvious to me. More a fart than a bang and it just didn't have the slap I was so used to.

 

[JohnKSa]

Gonna make this a sticky for awhile.

 

[waynedm]

I assume this is just applying to the 10mm and not the 9mm, .40 ect?

I shoot a lot of the Winchester white box of 9mm and for the shooting I do the rate of fire is so rapid that I may not even have much of a chance to notice a squib.

 

[kkb]

I assume this is just applying to the 10mm and not the 9mm, .40 ect?

I'm only making a statement about my two boxes out of the bazillions of rounds they make. Whether it's a problem with the entire lot or Murphy decided to have fun with just me I don't know. I'm guessing it's limited to just a fraction of the boxes in this lot of 10mm Silvertip.

 

[6Covered]

Long time lurker. First time reply.

I had the very same thing happen to me. I'm fairly new to 10mm. I resently purchased two Smiths. Both LNIB. A 1006 and a 1066. I have run a bunch of cheapo Remingtons through them. I have found, ordered and shot Double Taps. Shot some 155gr Hornedys. Bought my first box of Winchester 175gr Silvertip. About the fifth round, I got a squib. Thankfully the gun jambed. I think because there was no recoil? I was at an indoor range. Their on duty Gunsmith took over. He had to beat the slide back to get the empy casing out. He then drove the bullet out. I have the casing and bullet.

I have shot literally thousands of rounds of 9 and 45. I have read about but never have had a squib. If I had been practiceing double taps and the gun had ejected the empy casing, bad things could have happened.

 

[6Covered]

Forget to add. This happened to me about the first week of January 07.

 

[treeprof]

Not an isolated incident:

http://www.10mmtalk.com/index.php?showtopic=5682

and:

http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=600690

A lot # from that 10mmtalk poster would have been helpful and I can't seem to get the pics on the glocktalk thread to show..

 

[blume357]

Good reason to carry a wood dowel rod in your range bag

that will fit down the barrel... you can use anything for a hammer but really need that rod to knock the round back out.

Sounds like Winchester has a problem...

I had the same thing happen this past year in my Sig 380... with a round...but later realized it was a round that had been through the wash. Now I have a special box/tray in my ammo cabinet for 'suspect' ammo. If it comes out of the box and is found laying around, it doesn't go back in a box..but in the tray and I use it for target practice... but never put back in a mag or cylinder for 'defense'.

 

[kkb]

I'm gonna have to check my mailbox more often! They sent snailmail the next day, and here I was checking email with baited breath!

Olin/Winchester said how they were "very concerned [to] learn of the problem" and ask I send in the ammo for QA review.

After their review they'll send a "formal letter" (what are they going to say; 'Yep, that ain't right.'? ) and "compensation for the ammunition returned".

Look forward to the next installment of this saga...

 

[captainmuskrat]

jason g,
I've only had a couple of squibs, and i could tell right away. One was with a little model 60 revolver during relatively slow fire. It had pronounced difference in feel of recoil and sound. The other was with my H and K during quicker fire. I did notice it right away and stopped shooting. It is just something to look for, even during double taps. If you are aware of this possibilty, you'll know it happened as soon as it happened.

 

[ShootingNut]

Question

as pretty new to the handgun sport. I am surprised with a semi-auto, that firing a squib would even rack the slide enough to put another round into the chamber. From reading the posts, it apparently can?
It would seem to be more of a problem with a revolver. Again, still learning.

 

[Willy T]

After reading this post I inspected my Winchester 175gr SHPs, Four of a box of 20 has powder all around the seating of the primer as seen from the rear. I checked all my Federal, Hornady,Corbon ammo on hand and none looked like that. I dont have a high enough quality camera to show this but take me at my word. Should I be concerned?

 

[kkb]

Four of a box of 20 has powder all around the seating of the primer as seen from the rear. ... Should I be concerned?

I didn't see that with my bum ammo. Maybe you picked up the powder that spilled out of my cases

I'm thinking if the powder will wipe off and their weight is good just clean 'em up and have fun with 'em. Do check to make sure the primer has a good seal in the pocket e.g. not dented around the edges.

 

[JohnKSa]

After their review they'll send a "formal letter" (what are they going to say; 'Yep, that ain't right.'? ) and "compensation for the ammunition returned".

Still no word?

How long does it take them to figure out that there is no powder in some of the cases???

 

[kkb]

Still no word?

Well I'm sorta confused.

Got a letter from them March 12 where they said "This will acknowledge receipt of the material sent to us for examination." and go on to say "These are currently being reviewed by our Quality" department etc.

Then on March 26 I get another letter from them again acknowledging receipt of the ammo but this time it's "The material received has been sent to our Quality Control people for handling as they deem necessary." They then go on to say in addition to their regrets that I've had this trouble they've also ordered replacement product for me.

So I guess the upshot is it ain't good and they can't pin it on me so they'll send me some new ammo via mail/ups/fedex/muletrain or whatever.

Either that or there's some kind of auto mail that goes out periodically with variations on a theme until a complaint actually hits QA.

 

[kkb]

Mr. UPS came today and left a little package from Winchester on my doorstep!

Four boxes of replacement ammo, 80 rounds and they all weighed 261±1.1 grains. Cool

I wonder if that's double the boxes I sent them, or a box per squib cartridge

 

[Socrates]

Nice of em. By sending you the ammo, they sort of admit they screwed up, a dangerous thing to do in this world, if you make stuff.

Dr. S

 

[Musketeer]

Nice of em. By sending you the ammo, they sort of admit they screwed up, a dangerous thing to do in this world, if you make stuff.

It isn't really an admission of anything. They, like many large companies, often will just send product to keep a customer happy.