Factory .223 overchargeed

[Rangefinder]

One reason I reload...

Went out last week to check the zero on the rifle my son wanted to use for elk this year. While we were there, I decided to take my NEF .223 to sight in since I changed scopes on it. I had a box of .223 40gr. varmint loads I got at Wally-World last year, and didn't have time to reload anything for it, so guess what came with us.

had it dialed in tight really quick and was shooting a group to verify when one shot sounded different, and the bullet impact was about 8" high. I thought ""Whoa, that wasn't right..." Popped the breach open and the back half of the case dropped out. Had to remove the front half later with a feeler pick.

After that shot I took a close look at the previous cases--every one of them showed over-pressure signs with flattened primers.

Anyone else have any bad experience with over-charged factory loads???

 

[Xfire68]

I have not had any problems with factory ammo but, I have have friends that have.

Granted I am sure that factories don't put out over charged ammo often but, a mistake by them could send out thousands of rounds!

Glade to see none was hurt!

 

[demigod]

I've had a UMC Rem .223 blow out a primer. That case doesn't look bad enough to have damaged the weapon or anything.... but yeah... if it hit high and sounded different... it definitely looks like a hot charge.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

Interesting. Do you have any left? I'd contact the company and see what they think about it.

If they're not concerned, I'd pull the remaining rounds, weigh out the average powder amount, reduce it by 15%, rebuild them and go shoot.

 

[taylorce1]

Have you measured the fired brass to new? You could have an out of spec chamber as well. If you have excessive head space you could be getting the flattened primer as well as case seperation. I'd check that as well, and send any unfired ammunition back to the manufacturer as well as spent cases if they ask for them. Make sure to take pictures of it for your records.

.223 cases are kind of hard to over pressure unless the factory put something like a pistol powder in there. It would have to be a super fast burning powder and all the fast rifle powders pretty much fill a .223 case safely without pressure problems. The only other thing it could be is a light charge that detonates instead of burning.

 

[mehavey]

That doesn't look like an overload as much as case head separation due to either:

- Headspace in your rifle
- Waaaaay over re-sized brass (creating) excessive headspace
- Reloaded military brass (commercially sold) which had already stretched beyond specs before being resized.

Who made/reloaded the ammunition? (LC`07 headstamp? -- but then I don't recognize the circle-enclosed cross)

 

[temmi]

only bad primers on shot shells

 

[mehavey]

More data:
See.....

You definitely have military/NATO-fired brass. (Cross symbol on this headstamp means it met NATO specs.)

Suspicion confirmed.
Contact the manufacturer

 

[zippy13]

Who made/reloaded the ammunition? (LC`07 headstamp? -- but then I don't recognize the circle-enclosed cross)​

I'm guessing it's NATO (circle with cross) from the Lake City arsenal. Who knows, it might be surplus SAW ammo.

 

[mehavey]

Agree all.....

 

[rattletrap1970]

That is Lake City brass (1999). Ex-Military stuff. We used to get it for High Power competition. The once fired stuff is pretty sought after, you can reload it a bunch of times. Yours separated in the middle, that's a lot of firing (and maybe hot). I have a bunch of 1968 and 1969 stuff, I love it.

 

[demigod]

.223 cases are kind of hard to over pressure unless the factory put something like a pistol powder in there.

Completely WRONG!! Plenty of powders out there will exceed pressure specs and still not be compressed loads.

That doesn't look like an overload as much as case head separation due to either:

Also WRONG. Notice the Completely flattened primer with primer flow back into the fireing pin hole??? Also in the CONTEXT of the post (which seems lost on everyone), this round fired high and sounded different than the rest. The problem is with the specific ROUND.

The OP took time to give good info, and now he's getting idiotic replies.

Who made/reloaded the ammunition? (LC`07 headstamp? -- but then I don't recognize the circle-enclosed cross)

Federal loaded lots of commercial factory ammo in LC brass around 06 and 07. I still have some American Eagle .223 FMJ ammo in LC 06 nato stamped brass.

 

[kraigwy]

Contrary to popular belief, Factory's screw up just like us reloaders.

Many years ago, when DCM furnished ammo for LEG (EIC) matches we bot a lot of M72 '06 ammo that wouldn't fire but blew out the primers. We noticed somebody (Lake City Ammo Plant) forgot to put flash holes in the brass.

I (the NG) had a bunch of M-72 for our sniper rifles I was able to use so we could shoot the match, but it just goes to show, everyone screws up.

Another time, (in LE) our department was issuing Winchester 125 grn 357 stuff. We got one lot with the mouth of the cases screwed up as if someone didnt bell the mouth of the case before inserting the bullet.

 

[mehavey]

That doesn't look like an overload as much as case head separation due to either:

Also WRONG. Notice the Completely flattened primer with primer flow back into the fireing pin hole???

Also in the CONTEXT of the post (which seems lost on everyone), this round fired high and sounded different than the rest. The problem is with the specific ROUND. The OP took time to give good info, and now he's getting idiotic replies.

Said with the intonation of John Wayne: " Well pardon me all to hell, pilgrim.... "

But I'm "intimately familiar" with both overloaded .223 in particular (See below) ...

...and within incipient (and total) case separation within single-shot/fully case-enclosed chambers (in my particular case a big Sharps).

The 223 case is fairly tough, and will show all sorts of can't-you-see-this-stupid? warning when finally headed to the barn. The fact that Rangefinder's primers haven't fallen out completely is one of them. That the rim doesn't look all that distorted/expanded is another. Finally, that he has some primer cratering may/may not be a pressure sign depending both upon case setback speed as it stretched to meet the bolt, and upon firing pin hole diameter relative to the pin diameter itself.

That the round sounded different on firing is hardly a surprise, since the case let go and reduced the chamber pressure as it approached peak compression. That the round struck high is no surprise either since slower rounds tend to strike higher since they spend more time in the barrel as it rises off of recoil.

And finally, finally, the case exihibits classic single-shot separation appearances wherein it fails about 1/4 -1/3 of the case length ahead of the head. (Where even my fully-rimed Sharps would fail until I changed to HDS cases.) Couple that with no other real "Godawful" pressure signs evident on the case/head/primer/hole, and I diagnose probable headspace-induced failure.

Either way, the ammunition is supect.
Contact the manufacturer.

 

[swmike]

Looking at the case head this looks just like some crappy ammo I got once from Black Hills. Take a good look at the primer pocket. Rather than swaging the military crimp, it appears that the crimp was removed with a countersink. If this is the case, your ammo wasn't NEW but RELOADED and from there it's anyone's guess what it was loaded with or how much.

The stuff I got was some of their ammo they were supplying to local Police Departments for practice/qualification purposes. It was JUNK and the cases were so badly mangled that they were unusable for anyone else that wanted to reload them.

 

[F. Guffey]

I do not know, I do know high pressure does not cause a case to seperate in the middle. I have delibertly fired over pressure loads when testing a receiver and when fire forming (I fire form cases once).

Over pressure loadss expand the head of the case, not the part that fits in the chamber, I am talking about the part of the case that hangs out of the chamber, called case head protrusion, I have had cases heads expand .020 thousands in one firing, when the case head expands every thing is relative, the primer pocket expands, the flash hole expands and the case head expands, if the measurments were not known before firing measuring the case head after firing is for practice, so I suggest the shooter save one unfired round out of the box for referrence, or measure before firing, not a common tool but I have a flash hole gage, again, if the flash hole diameter is not known before firing merasuring aftewards is for practice.

The case head is a colum of brass, ever time the case is fired the case gets hammered, hammering the colum of brass upsets it.

And all the heavy loads I have fired resulted in flattening the case head, this leaves the case head stampings shallow.

NEF 223 is a brake over rifle, if I had a brake over rifle I would expect the rifle to have head space issues, I prefer the more rigid receiver, the Mauser, the Springfiled and the M1917, I have three brake over shotguns, there is something wrong with all three, like new but held shut with plastic ties to prevent them from falling apart.

F. Guffey

 

[taylorce1]

The OP took time to give good info, and now he's getting idiotic replies.

Alright I'll bite O' master of the bench, enlighten us with your knowledge!

1. I never said you couldn't overpressure a .223 case without compressing the load. I said it was hard to do. Most of your fast burning rifle powders were developed for the .223/5.56X45. There are some powders out there that will do it, but my guess is that it is still tough to do since you would have to exceed at least 62,000 psi to do it. Plus do you know what powder ATK (Federal) was using when this round was produced.

According to the official Commission Internationale Permanente pour l'Epreuve des Armes à Feu Portatives (C.I.P.) guidelines the .223 Remington case can handle up to 430 megapascals (62,366 psi) piezo pressure. In C.I.P. regulated countries every rifle cartridge combo has to be proofed at 125% of this maximum C.I.P. pressure to certify for sale to consumers. This is equal to the NATO maximum service pressure guideline for the 5.56x45mm NATO cartridge.

The SAAMI pressure limit for the .223 Remington is set at 379.212 megapascals (55,000 psi), piezo pressure

2. I said it could have been a powders screw up at the factory, maybe on the assembly line some pistol powder got mixed in there. Or a squib charge got in there below minimum load. Light loads have been credited for many of actions blowing apart and it is well documented.

3. What I really think happened was the brass flowed too far in an out of spec chamber and caused the case to separate around the circumference. Again an out of spec chamber will cause flattening of the primer as well as causing the brass to flow. My guess is this piece of brass was a little weaker than the rest and I'd like to see what a caliper on the fired brass vs. unfired tells us.

4. Any of the above could have caused a different sound when the trigger was pulled and thrown the accuracy off.

 

[DoubleUp]

This is my first post on this forum. If the ammo was new and bought from Wally World, then why would it be labeled as 40gr Varmint and have a nato cross headstamp? Thanks for the info you guys make available to everyone.

 

[mehavey]

That's why the question was asked, "what company loaded it?"

If it's "remanfactured" ammunition to keep the cost down, it usually uses surplus military brass. (Black Hills Blue Label is the standard here, and very good ammunition)

 

[DoubleUp]

Gotcha, I'm in NC and none of our Wal-marts here carry remanufactured ammo. About all we see is either Winchester White box, Rem. UMC, or Federal American Eagle in these stores. Guess I just took it for granted that they only sold newly manufactured ammo everywhere.

Thanks for the reply.