Extreme Walter Mitty Scenerio

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XavierBreath

New member
Step through the looking glass for a moment.....

Today while I was out making my rounds, I had a thought. Suppose Osama Bin Laden himself crossed the border into the United States. Let's say he was camping out in the Arizona desert trying to stay under the radar and set up a terrorist training camp for misguided American youth. Just give me that one, OK? ;)

Now, say Bubba recognizes him in the local Stop & Save. Bubba tracks him and discovers his camp. Bubba stalks him for a couple of weeks until Osama leaves the area again. Bubba whoops out his trusty deer rifle and pops Osama in the head. Bubba drags him to his truck and takes his carcass to the local Barber shop to show off to his buddies.

For the sake of the argument, lets say that Bubba popped him while he was still in the desert. Lets also say that DNA analysis confirms that the carcass is indeed Osama.

Would Bubba be prosecuted under our existing laws, or would Bubba collect his reward? Remember there is a $25 million reward on his head, and the POTUS himself stated he wanted him dead or alive.

I know it's silly, but just entertain the thought a bit.........
FBI Wanted Poster
 
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Mike Irwin

Staff
Sounds like murder to me.

Bush's utterance of "wanted dead or alive" has absolute no legal authority, as far as I can tell.
 
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XavierBreath

New member
That is what I was thinking too, Mike, but consider...... If a Pakistani did the same in the mountains of Pakistan, and turned over the corpse to our armed forces, he would likely not only collect the reward, but receive political assylum and protection for himself and his family within the US. The killing would likely be called murder in Pakistan, but our government would likely reward the killer. Should Bubba be any different just because he is geographically challenged?

For me, it's rather thought provoking, even if it is far fetched.
 
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Mike Irwin

Staff
Consider what?

That a Pakistani isn't subject to the laws of the United States while he's in Pakistan?

But that Bubba, being in the Arizona desert, IS subject to the laws of the United States?

Consider this, too.

I'm not so sure that the Pakistani would receive an award for turning over Bin Laden's corpse.

Despite what the Cowboy In Chief says, the United States government wants that son of a bitch alive. Not dead.
 
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Lawyer Daggit

New member
Sounds like murder- unless Osama went for his gun in 'self defence!'

As has been correctly stated, the Dead or Alive utterance has no legal status.
 
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XavierBreath

New member
I went looking for some info on US policy in this area, and came up with this link. While it may not give Bubba, who would be working on his own, any legal protection, it does show the grayness of the area in US policy. It certainly demonstrates that the US government would accept him dead as well as alive.

A excerpt:
In a classified 1998 intelligence finding, President Clinton authorized the CIA to use covert lethal force against Osama bin Laden and his deputies. Having declared after September 11 that bin Laden was wanted “dead or alive,” President Bush issued another intelligence finding, this one giving the CIA permission to use lethal force against a wider class of al-Qaeda personnel. The United States subsequently targeted individual al-Qaeda operatives during the military campaign in Afghanistan, and in November 2002, the CIA used a Hellfire missile to kill an al-Qaeda leader in Yemen. The Bush administration says al-Qaeda operatives are enemy “combatants” under international law—and that strikes against al-Qaeda personnel are thus military actions, not assassinations...........
The U.N. Charter states that “in peacetime, the citizens of a nation, whether they are political officials or private individuals,” are supposed to be immune “from intentional acts of violence by citizens, agents or military forces of another nation.” But in wartime, international law allows the targeted killing of a member of the enemy’s chain of command, even the head of state, whether that person is a civilian or a military officer, and regardless of the means employed.
 
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cracked butt

New member
Sure its murder, but outside some of the few far left enclaves in America, you're not going to find a jury who will hang Bubba. Happy hunting!
 
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Sir William

New member
No federal prosecution possible, civil rights would not even be entertainable. The USA wants OBL dead, the bounty is $25,000,000.00. Open offer of assassination. Shooting that wounds but, OBL is alive? Kidnap him and present him as a gift. The state laws may or may not be applicable. Dead or alive has never been legally challenged before SCOTUS. I believe it is a legal order of the POTUS and could well supersede state law. It is the responsibilty of the executive branch to enforce even under claim of violence the law. I daresay Bubba would slide and have a better grade of grits for the rest of his life.
 
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cortez kid

New member
Bubba would be tried and found guilty of murder. His guns would be confiscated. He would lose his property and right to vote. His wife and kids would be put into poverty and shame. His life would be totally ruined by the actions of the Federal Govt. All the while the champagne and crackers would be consumed by the Pres and co. for a job well done.
kid
 
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buzz_knox

New member
Bubba ought to use the fleeing felon argument, at least if he's smart enough to say he tried a citizen's arrest. And DHS and the FBI would have got him saying that by the time questioning was concluded.

It's unlikely Bubba would be charged, probably would not be convicted and if he did, would probably receive a presidential pardon.
 
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chorlton

New member
Can you really imagine someone going to jail for killing OBL ? He might be charged for show, but like the last guy said, he wouldn't do time.
 
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Mike Irwin

Staff
"I believe it is a legal order of the POTUS and could well supersede state law."

I beg your mindnumbing, what in the hell are you talking about PARDON?

Presidental UTTERANCE at a news conference does NOT have force of law in this nation.

The President is not an absolute monarch whose every word is a directive of state (IOW, he's no Louis the XIV, "L'etat c'est moi")

As for the US wanting Bin Laden dead...

READ THE WANTED POSTER.

Nowhere on it does it say "Wanted Dead or Alive."

In fact, this statement is at the bottom of the poster:

"The Rewards For Justice Program, United States Department of State, is offering a reward of up to $25 million for information leading directly to the apprehension or conviction of Usama Bin Laden. An additional $2 million is being offered through a program developed and funded by the Airline Pilots Association and the Air Transport Association."


No where does it indicate that this is a cash for corpse exchange.

While it's definitely true that the US would accept Bin Laden's head on a stick, it's also true that it is much more preferable to capture him alive simply because of the knowledge he has.

If you kill the man, that knowledge, about his networks, his funding, his supporters, etc., dies with him.
 
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