Everything crappy about the...Sig 229 and friends.

Greg Bell

New member
Guys,

Once again I'm trying to gather all the criticisms of a popular gun together under one thread. Here I'm talking about the classic SIG's other than the 230, 232. My experience has been with 220,226,228,229 and 239. FYI, I have two 229's--with 1500 rounds of 357 and 1100+ rounds of 40 they have a total of ZERO malfunctions between them. I also have a 239 than has functioned flawlessly. However, I used to own a 228 that had a stray roll pin.

1. Heavy. The SIG is heavy compared to many other modern autoloaders. Despite an aluminum frame, it feels like a load. However, the extra heft does a good job of absorbing recoil.

2. Large. SIG’s are bigger than comparable autoloaders (except to 239).

3. Pricey. They tend to be a little higher than many competing guns. Around here, a Glock 23 goes for about $500 (on the high end). SIGs tend to be $100-$125 higher. Surely the SIG is a bit more expensive to produce but %20+ more seems a bit much.

4. Frame cracking. Rumor has it that SIGs crack their frames earlier than other guns. I have never seen this. My SIG’s feel so stout that this seems hard to believe. But who knows?

5. Rust. The earlier guns had sheet metal slides (220, 225, 226, 228 (early)). Later guns like the 229 and the new 226 have stainless slides so rust isn't a real problem anymore. However, my old 228 picked up a little rust.

6. Roll pins on early models. These pins in the slide sometimes worked themselves out. My old 228 had this problem. it annoyed me so much it was years before I trusted a SIG again. It should not be a big deal--but it was annoying when I had shelled out so much dough $$.

7. UGLY. Around 87' when I first started paying attention to guns I thought the SIG was really, really ugly. Since then it has been surpassed, IMHO, by the USP and various Glocks. Actually, all of these guns look good to me now. Strange how that happens. BMW Z3 coupe is still ugly.

Any additions or subtractions?




[This message has been edited by Greg Bell (edited October 25, 2000).]
 
Recently when I was in Canada, I examined a Sig P226 which was cracked which was a couple of inches long along the length of the rail on right hand side. The gunsmith asked the owner what type of loads the owner was shooting. The owner replied regular factory. While I suspect he was using something hotter, the gun awaits to be shipped to Sig for examination. We should have taken it to an autoshop and magnafluxed it to see how the other rail was doing.
 

J. Parker

New member
Greg; I've had four. A P-225 years ago. Nice pistol but I didn't like it's low capacity. Next was a P-220. Between my shootin' buddy and I it's accuracy was what legends are made of. Like a fool I traded it. Then a P-229 in 40 cal. Didn't have it very long but no problems. After a Springfield Champion, a Glock 21, a USP45 I've returned to the one I should have kept all along. I just bought a brand new P-220. Weight? Can't complain about 30 oz. Size? About the same size as a Colt Commander, not bad. Pricey? Well, yes. Ugly? No...Businesslike. Best Regards, J. Parker
 

Tamara

Moderator Emeritus
Hmm. I had a P-228 for a while. Loved the pistol, very accurate. Never had the roll-pin problem, and as it was the early rolled sheet metal slide variant, weight wasn't a problem.

DA trigger was extremely sweet, but the SA pull was nothing to write home to mom about.

13 rounds of 9mm in a pistol the same size as a G19/G23 which have 15 of 9mm or 13 .40 cal.

This was probably the only pistol from a "big-league" manufacturer that's more fond of oxidizing while-u-watch than my P7M8...

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"..but never ever Fear. Fear is for the enemy. Fear and Bullets."
10mm: It's not the size of the Dawg in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog!

[This message has been edited by Tamara (edited October 25, 2000).]
 

Tecolote

New member
Greg,

You covered the main points. I'd just add the high bore axis some people dislike. I don't think it's a problem.

If SIG Sauer made Tenifer coated firearms they'd be great. Even if they had something like ARS' finishes I'd still be a lot happier than the poor finish they use on the stamped slide pistols.

For me the P225 is the sweetest of the bunch. Light, slim, compact and a tack driver.

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"Get yourself a Pistolet Makarova and lose that pricey western gadget."

[This message has been edited by Tecolote (edited October 25, 2000).]
 

Ben

New member
SIG question:

Does Sig make a 226 or 228 in 10mm? A friend of mine is convinced that they are available in Europe, and that they just aren't imported into the USA. I've never even HEARD of Sig making a 10mm though. Let me know.

FWIW: I really like the 229 and can't think of any negatives.

Ben

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Almost Online IM: BenK911
ICQ # 53788523
"Gun Control Is Being Able To Hit Your Target"
Different, just like everyone else. (Ben Original)
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Marko Kloos

New member
There is no current production SIG in 10mm Auto, neither in Europe nor the US. I've owned, carried and shopped for SIGs in Europe, and there are no 10mm SIGs, period. It's a shame, too...the 10mm is a fine round, and the SIGs are outstanding pistols. A 10mm SIG would be something I'd buy in a heartbeat.

They do make most SIG models in .40 *&*, which is technically a 10mm Lite.

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"He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice." -- Albert Einstein
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Glock/Benelli/Enfield -- the all-purpose threat management system.
 

J. Parker

New member
I've actually considered refinishing my P-220 with Brownell's Teflon/Moly Oven Cure. I did a S&W Mod 28 and it came out great but I'd be too scared to do the Sig. Best, J. Parker
 

MPower

New member
I have a 228, and while I favor the P7M8 (see crappy things about P7 post) I have to say it is among the best out there. But here are some areas where it falls short...
1)Sigs are rusters, however my 228 is factory nickled. I have not had any finish problems and find it pretty sturdy.
2) Cost of standard cap mags is very expensive, easily $85-90 for 13 rders. Try finding them in nickle and difficulty multiplies dramatically.
3) High bore axis. Not really a problem, but it is exagerated by the fact that I shoot a P7.
4) Never really cared for the stock plastic grips. They creaked and felt sharp. I notice more Sigs have Hogue grips than any other brand, so I must not be alone.
5) Never really cared for the stock "dot the i" sight picture. Nite sites cures this.

Don't get me wrong however, this gun is as good as it gets, and I am perfectly happy with it, and would buy another 220 or 228 without second thoughts.
View


Now how does that quote go?..."Get rid of that Glock and get yourself a Nickle plated sissy pistol!"


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Aloha!
John
 

blades67

New member
There're not free! ;) :D

I did have a P229 .40 S&W with a chamber that was so tight it would only chamber consecutive rounds if you held on to it like a Ransom Rest. I was going to have the chamber polished to cure it, but I traded it for an HK91 instead. Now whenever I start to miss the P229 I just take the 91 out of the safe and hold it for a bit. (I don't think the finish can take much more of me missing that 229. :D)

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Guns cause crime like spoons cause Rosie O'Donnell to be fat!

I hunt, therefore I am.
 

Correia

New member
I don't like the location of the slide release, but thats just my opinion. I've never owned a Sig, I always found other guns I liked better for less $. Not to bash them by any means, because every time I look at the 239 I find myself wanting one for some reason.
 

Emin

New member
Well, as from a proud owner of three of them, here it goes...

1. They're all DA/SA -- hate it (not just Sig's but any kind of DA/SA transition) wholeheartedly! If only SIG Sauer decided to make either SA, or Glock-type trigger!...

2. Hogue grips are a must. However, they make the grip a bit thick for my taste. It's convenient to just hold, but reaching the trigger in DA is a tiny bit uncomfortable for me and many other people (and that's with my medium to large size hands). I guess installing a short trigger would solve this, but I just don't want to spend one more dime on these $$$ babies.

3. Grip screws -- feel like made of compressed mixture of metal and glass powder, with a bit of sand added. Even a little touch with a screwdriver leaves a mark. Cheap! Had to purchase SS screws from TJ Custom.

4. Factory sights are extremely cheaply made for such high-end firearms.

5. Although it's been beaten to death here as well as on Sigforum, the notorious wear marks on their frames DO get slightly bigger with time -- a lot of owners are convinced they start to appear with each and every SIG Sauer but stop after reaching a certain point. Not the case with my Sigs -- the marks on one of them are to the point of not only completely rubbing off the black coat, but also eating into the aluminum as well. One can already feel these marks by simply touching the rear portion of rails, without looking. Sad.

6. They don't like to be dry -- some even call them as belonging to the "wet system" or something like that, but I don't remember for sure.

Something to clarify myself: all the aforementioned points are merely absolute observations of the firearm; no comparison of the GENERAL RELIABILITY and PERFORMANCE with any other make or model has been taken into consideration. Several individual features, nevertheless, were compared.

If, on the other hand, we cared to compare, SIG Sauer P-series handguns would come up as top notch in its own and many other classes -- a list of other makes which fade in this comparison is long.
 

branrot

New member
To answer one complaint, I actually like the texture of the stock grips on my 229.

However, my two complaints are the bump on the left side of the grip just under the slide release. I'm not sure exactly why it's there; no other guns of mine have it. While it doesn't interfere with my shooting, I think I could get a little more comfortable grip if it wasn't there.

I also have a problem with the finish. I have about three spots (little ones) where the factory bluing seems to have chipped away, leaving a bright silver spot where the bluing used to be. This bugs me.
 

hksigwalther

New member
"Recently when I was in Canada, I examined a Sig P226 which was cracked which was a couple of inches long along the length of the rail on right hand side. The gunsmith asked the owner what type of loads the owner was shooting. The owner replied regular factory. While I suspect he was using something hotter, the gun awaits to be shipped to Sig for examination. We should have taken it to an autoshop and magnafluxed it to see how the other rail was doing."

4V50 Gary,

That's where my first 226 cracked. From the rear of the front right sliderail for about 1 - 1.5 inches. I did use some old military surplus ammo that could have been for subguns. Sent it in to SIGARMS and they sent me a brand new one.

As for the rolled pin walking out, I've never had that problem.

As for looks, I liked it from the first time I saw it (and still do). It looks all business.

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- Ron V.
 

Kilroy

New member
Most recently I came into a teletype message about feeding detonations with the 229 in .357 caliber. Specifics are still pending. A web site that details the .40 caliber feeding detonations can be found at...
http://www.lebmofo.com/~dkaufman/sig.htm

I met some European shooters who experienced the cracked frames and were esp. put off by the Euro idea of customer service. Of course one may not malign products there, so it is not widely known.

Some relatively isolated problems don't prove much, only that anything mechanical can have a bad day. I like the 228 I have, but am going to sell it so I can afford the next gun.

Kilroy...
...was here
 

BrokenArrow

New member
That link is to the 9mm det probs Chicago PD had, not 40/357s. Are they doing it too?

Much ado about nothing? Strange, a lot more 40/45/357 Glocks have blown w factory ammo; any FOP warnings about them? NYPDs EST is supposed to have a "bushel basket" full of broken Beretta locking blocks? Any FOP warning about them? NYPD was having mucho probs with jams in G19s too; any FOP warnings about them?

Baltimore County PD had 52 of 1400 SIG 226s crack. Guns were still reliable, groups opened up. Switched to sig pros in 40.

The classic SIGs are very good guns. Some are tougher, some are more rust resistant, some are lighter, but few are more shootable all around?

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[This message has been edited by BrokenArrow (edited October 27, 2000).]
 
Thanks Ron V for confirmation of my suspicions on the crack frame.

Regarding the roll pin working itself out, I've seen it happen only once and it belonged to a Dist. Atty. Investigator. I had him bring it to class (we were attending Advanced Officer Training at the Academy) and I brought my roll pin punch, hammer and a bench block. During a break, he produced the gun (unloaded) and I removed the slide, placed it atop the bench block, steadied the roll pin punch and gave it one whack with the hammer. The instructor, who was horrified as he looked on (it was not a law enforcement block but some unsworn fellow who was there to talk to us about sensitivity or some other nonsense), was speechless (well he should be anyway). Roll pin in place, the investigator happy (they don't have an armorer) and I'm happy he's happy. "Serving Our City!"
 

beemerb

Moderator
As normal I don't seem to hve the problems everyone else has.I have a old P 220.It is carred concealed every day.Yes the blue is wore off the slide but it lasted longer then the colt blue did.No blue but allso no rust.Double to single action?I practice it and have no problem with it at all.My only change to the gun was a set of houge grips,When I grab I don't want my hand to slip around.
Too heavy?Carry a colt goverment for a while.I have never owned a semi auto pistol that I have more faith in.It never jams it is accurate and it feels right to me.I sold all my colts after I bought the sig.
I have had my roll pins out to do a 100% clean on it.Supposed to replace the pins with new ones when you take them out.I didn't and have had no pins problems.
I guess I am in love.

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Bob--- Age and deceit will overcome youth and speed.
I'm old and deceitful.
 
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