Ever had a rifle that just wouldn't group when clean?

[Doyle]

I picked up a mid 80's Winchester model 70 Ranger in .270 and I wasn't happy with the way it grouped (or rather the lack of grouping). So, I floated the barrel and bedded the action. The barrel was very tight (it has been sitting in the previous owner's closet for close to 20 years and wasn't even broken in), so I lapped it. I tried 4 different ammo types using 5 shots each. I cleaned the barrel before starting each group. 3 out of the 4 gave me 2" groups at 100 yds and the 4th went all over the place. This was the same result I got before doing all the work. Not good. Then, I stopped cleaning and shot a dozen more times. I kept getting 2" groups until I got to about the 18th shot after cleaning. The next 3 shots could be covered with a quarter with room to spare.

It looks like this particular gun just does not like to be shot clean. I think this is going to be one of those that you sight in before hunting season and leave the barrel alone until after the season is over. I've had .22's before that did this but not a centerfire.

 

[ELMOUSMC]

Dirty shooter

My .22-250 is a dirty shooter if I clean it really well,lead and copper fouling removed all nitrates and powder residue scrubbed away it will take 15 or so rounds to get it to settle down and start shooting MOA like it is capable of. On the other hand my Weatherby Vanguard is just the opposite if it isn't cleaned after 30 or so rounds it starts to open up badly.It's just the nature of the beasts I guess ELMO

 

[doc2rn]

Lots

Most of my rifles when uber clean throw a spoiler. I never sight in until I have at least 5-6 rds through it. Once sighted in back in the safe till after the trip/hunt. If your weapon is scoped check the mounts, see if they are loose, or if the action hits the scope, has caused me problems before.

 

[10-96]

I had a Ruger K-something-V with a great heavy flat bottomed laminate stock, floated heavy 24" stainless bbl, chambered in .308. I ran the line of bullets from 110gr up to 168gr, I ran a small fortune of different powders, all the different primers. I shot it clean, dirty, everywhere in between and well... the darn thing wouldn't group either way. Sometimes that just happens I guess.

 

[Martyn4802]

Having done all of the rifle work that you've done, at this point I would look at the crown of the barrel, then recrown it..
If you are not reloading, please start.
I'm out of ideas...

Martyn

 

[MeekAndMild]

Off and on I've been tinkering with an 80's era Winchester 70 for a long time and never got it to shoot well clean or dirty. Maybe I don't have it dirty enough? Do you think a few years at the bottom of the river would help it?

 

[10-96]

It's hard to imagine- but sometimes rifles just don't do what they's s'posed to.

 

[Picher]

Grouping or not, centerfires should be cleaned soon after shooting. They are not like .22LRs that have wax-coated bullets to preserve the steel bore.

Centerfires actually remove all bore protection after a shot or two and make the bore prone to rusting. Years ago, I ruined a .22-250 bore by thinking it had to be dirty to shoot varmints well. When I looked through it three months later, the bore was so corroded, I couldn't get a cleaning rod through it.

Don't forget that group size isn't as important as dispersion when it comes to shooting game. A two-inch group means that the worst shot is only 1 inch from the center of the group. Sixty-six percent of all shots will be within about 5/8" of center. If you can shoot an animal under field conditions and without a defined aim point better than that you're utterly amazing. Even if you can, it won't make much difference whether the animal dies or not. It will probably be just as dead if hit an inch farther away from the aim point.

Now, what do you think will happen if you get some rust in the bore? First, if not cleaned out, your pressures will skyrocket and in an extreme case, the rifle could blow up. Either way, you miss by a heck of alot more than half an inch.

Picher

 

[The Tourist]

I actually think this is a condition of "over cleaning."

Bill Jordan believed that more good rifles were damaged by cleaning than by use. He stated that his 375 Mashburn custom had never been cleaned.

If I am picky, it's mostly on linotype in handguns. A tinge of copper in a varmint gun doesn't bother me a whit. In time--with hundreds if not thousands of rounds--they all stain.

 

[marks655]

Some of those Winchesters may not IMHO be the best rifles in terms of accuracy. Does the barrel appear to copper foul ? Fouling can play havoc with some rifles and not be much of a problem with others but if it fouls I would assume it is causing poor accuracy unless you gett ALL of the copper out.

For what it is worth, I have owned several M70's and the only really good shoooter was the pre-64.