Jayhawkhuntclub
New member
out of a snubnose? I'm just curious. There are a lot of opinions on this, but not a lot of data. Post it if you have!
Thanks!
Thanks!
Ever actually clock the difference in 38+P vs 357
- Thread starter Jayhawkhuntclub
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there is massive differences. sw still considers 1.8 inches to be a snub nose. many companies like say ruger consider 3.25 inches to be a "snub nose". so as a result, your going to have big differences in velocity and energy from the get go, even if you used the same load in each gun.
You may also want to look at Ballistics by the Inch -- http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/calibers.html
I was going to start a new thread, but this one seems to be pretty much the topic I was wondering about.
How much of an advantage is there in .357mag over .38spl+p against 2-legged threats? It seems like anything over 12" of penetration is overkill. I'm by no means skinny, but I'm less than 12" deep - plus, if I remember my anatomy classes, all the vital bits are stored fairly close to the front.
And, out of a 2" barrel it seems the gains are pretty marginal unless I'm reading something wrong.
The reason I ask is that I had a SP101 for a few years, but really never loved it, and wound up giving it to my brother. It was a little big/heavy for pocket carry, and for IWB I have better options. However, I find that I miss having it around - there's something about a snubnose revolver that just feels right. I've been looking at replacing it with maybe a 637.
It seems like the big advantage to magnum loads are for addressing 4 legged threats, and for that I'd probably want more than a 2" barrel.
Or am I wrong? Is the SP101 even all that much bigger/heavier than the 637, and is being able to shoot magnum loads worth it if it is?
How much of an advantage is there in .357mag over .38spl+p against 2-legged threats? It seems like anything over 12" of penetration is overkill. I'm by no means skinny, but I'm less than 12" deep - plus, if I remember my anatomy classes, all the vital bits are stored fairly close to the front.
And, out of a 2" barrel it seems the gains are pretty marginal unless I'm reading something wrong.
The reason I ask is that I had a SP101 for a few years, but really never loved it, and wound up giving it to my brother. It was a little big/heavy for pocket carry, and for IWB I have better options. However, I find that I miss having it around - there's something about a snubnose revolver that just feels right. I've been looking at replacing it with maybe a 637.
It seems like the big advantage to magnum loads are for addressing 4 legged threats, and for that I'd probably want more than a 2" barrel.
Or am I wrong? Is the SP101 even all that much bigger/heavier than the 637, and is being able to shoot magnum loads worth it if it is?
carguychris
New member
You're assuming that you'll get a shot from the front. The reason for the 12"-14" penetration standard is to ensure the bullet can reach the vitals when the shot is to the side, particularly through an arm.
Picture a BG shooting at you one-handed, lunging at you with a knife, or swinging a club at you, and it's easy to envision how a shot could hit from this angle.
That is the reason I carry standard loads in my 38 642. I don't see any real advantage to +Ps.
I use LSWCs and at standard velocities they give my all the penitration I need.
I do see the advantage in the standard loads when it comes to ease of shooting. All the velocity in the world doen't help if you can't shoot what your aiming at.
I really don't need all that muzzle blast and noise.
Super Sneaky Steve
New member
I've made good use of my chrono.
Out of the same 3" SP101 the most energy I was able to produce was a 125gr Gold Dot with 21.6gr of H110 (magnum load). It went 1367 fps and made 518ft/lbs. It hurt pretty bad, the laser on my revolver would dig into my finger pretty bad with those.
The most energy I could get out of a .38sp +P was a 158gr LSWC with 6.0gr of Power Pistol. It went 933fps and made 305ft/lbs.
So you get a 59% increase in energy using the .357 Magnum. That's nothing to sneeze at.
Out of the same 3" SP101 the most energy I was able to produce was a 125gr Gold Dot with 21.6gr of H110 (magnum load). It went 1367 fps and made 518ft/lbs. It hurt pretty bad, the laser on my revolver would dig into my finger pretty bad with those.
The most energy I could get out of a .38sp +P was a 158gr LSWC with 6.0gr of Power Pistol. It went 933fps and made 305ft/lbs.
So you get a 59% increase in energy using the .357 Magnum. That's nothing to sneeze at.
I wondered about the real difference in velocity between the two calibers out of a 2inch gun. When you look at some of the comparisons done (BB is a good one,) you can see some of the older revolvers with longer barrels are getting less velocity then some of the newer ones with short barrels. Probably boils down to individual firearms and loads used. The 12 inches of penetration is a result of the Miami shooting and rounds going through arms and then entering the chest cavity from the side. The older standard was 6-8 inches. Although you can probably get similar penetration between a .38spl 158 grain and a 357 mag 125 grain (some loads,) the 357mag with the added velocity would seem to hit harder and it may make a difference with a marginal shot.
According to Army studies, it takes 60 ft lbs of energy to produce a disabling wound.
Figuring a BC of .139 for a 38 LSWC bullet, leaving the muzzle at 760 fps you'll get more then that much at 200 yards.
That's the low average for a standard loading of a LSWC 158 grn bullet out of a 1 7/8s inch 642.
Taking into account you can shoot that mild load all day long without undo discomfort.............and since you can shoot it you're gonna be willing to practice more, which means HITS.
So explain to me again why I need to load my carry ammo to the point where the revolver cuts up my hand, giving me the flinches, to be able to use it for self defense to, lets say 25 yards.
Figuring a BC of .139 for a 38 LSWC bullet, leaving the muzzle at 760 fps you'll get more then that much at 200 yards.
That's the low average for a standard loading of a LSWC 158 grn bullet out of a 1 7/8s inch 642.
Taking into account you can shoot that mild load all day long without undo discomfort.............and since you can shoot it you're gonna be willing to practice more, which means HITS.
So explain to me again why I need to load my carry ammo to the point where the revolver cuts up my hand, giving me the flinches, to be able to use it for self defense to, lets say 25 yards.
Colorado Redneck
New member
This reminds me of the 300 Win Mag vs 243 argument. The diminuitve 243 has taken everything from white tail to elk ( and probably more.) Some folks feel undergunned with anything less than a 300 mag for pronghorns. Since the arms and ammo manufacturers are producing all calibers, pick what you like and use it. The question is whether or not snubbies will produce significantly more velocity with 357 than with 38 special +p. Evidently they will.
Walklightly
Moderator
To OP
Let me guess, you read something on the Internet.
Let me guess, you read something on the Internet.
http://www.policeone.com/corrections/articles/134070-Ohio-officer-stabbed-inmate-shot-in-hospital-escape-attempt/
This is one reason why. The inmate was shot with a 38 spl, FBI load, the old lswchp. The bullet flattened against the skull, traveled around the scalp and exited the front, having never penetrated the bone.
The department has since switched to glock 23s with 180g PDX1s.
This is one reason why. The inmate was shot with a 38 spl, FBI load, the old lswchp. The bullet flattened against the skull, traveled around the scalp and exited the front, having never penetrated the bone.
The department has since switched to glock 23s with 180g PDX1s.