Enlighten Me Please..... WWII German K98!

Title says it all, good years, what to look for, can they handle modern loads, what is frosting, what does russian rework mean, what plants to watch out for/look for? All that stuff, also, are yugo manufactured models comparable? Were rifles made in other countries for germany the same quality???
Thanks alot, I know I am asking alot!
-Chase
 

Limeyfellow

New member
Title says it all, good years,

Usually the ones not in the war or very early on when they still had the best materials to build from. German K98s are nice and collectable but there are others such as Israeli, early Yugoslavian (more on that later), Persians (considered by many to be the best of all the Kar98s), Turkish and Czech and Polish. Of course you'll pay more for the Persian ones.

What to look for

Look for reworking since many were converted by other countries such as the Israeli and Yugo to different calibres, features and so on. Then its just the standard things such as checking the headspace, the barrel and so on to see if its in good condition. Its doubtful you'll find a Kar98, particularly German for sale nowadays with matching numbers throughout the rifle. Most are Russian captures (more on that later too) nowadays.

can they handle modern loads

Pretty much. The 98 mauser action is one of the strongest in the world, however since 8mm surplus often costs less than 10 cents per round alot of people use that. Its corrosive so you want to clean it fairly soon after firing, which alot of people do with boiling water or the likes of windex or other ammonia based spray to remove the corrosive salts. More modern commercial 8mm Mauser rounds is going to cost you a tad more.

what is frosting

Thats when the barrel has been fired alot and the mirror type finish in the barrel has disappeared, usually from too much firing or lack of cleaning. Usually it can be okay, but the shiny barrels are better and tend to indicate its newer and will last longer. You are more concerned about pits and rust holes in the barrel which is a good sign to skip on that rifle.

what does russian rework mean

The Russians captured millions of German firearms in WW2 and alot of these they took good parts and put them together as backup firearms usually for combloc countries. These were allowed to be sold into the US in the 90s after making a deal with the US.

what plants to watch out for/look for?

Look for Persian ones for the best quality but if you really want German probrobly Oberndorf I guess. Usually the plant is not all that important since Germans really knew how to do small arms.

are yugo manufactured models comparable?

You have to be careful since many Yugo Mausers that aren't actually K98s are being passed off as them for instance Mitchell Mausers are quite infamous for it. Normally they are only worth about a $100 and are the Yugo M48. Theres a bunch of others out there that are different types of Mausers. You could even include the US 1903 springfield in that list. Turkish ones in particular are really cheap and many don't work properly so be careful on buying one.
 
Thanks anyone else?? WHY are the persian ones so nice?? I know obviously that prewar models are the best but still.. the germans were/are masters of small arms! My grandfather who served throughout the entirety of the war said the k98 shot circles around the garande, and he was a morter man in charge of his morter platoon, he said his carbine was "maybe" good to 100yrds after that he just used the morter:eek: :D .
TIA
-Chase
 

BUSTER51

Moderator
BS an as issued K98 will not shoot circles around an as issued Garande.:rolleyes: The Garande was the best rifle in WW2 and had better sights than the K98 .don't try and rewrite history .:mad:
 

TimRB

New member
"Please someone buy this so at 18 I can buy it off you"

I would consider that rifle unremarkable and somewhat overpriced. Less than a year ago I paid less than that for a Russian-capture K98 that had swastikas intact. Thirty dollars for shipping is about twice what I would expect to pay. Caveat emptor.

Tim
 
True, maybe costs went up???? I dunno, is there a special place to buy them that has lower prices and better inventory? Do you think prices will be sky high in a few years?
-Chase
And about the garande thats what he said To quote " the was pretty accurate, but I always thought the k98 was more so" Then he said "the germans were also better trained and most of the time better marksmen than us"
 

joab

New member
I have a Yugo
It's is a Mauser, but not

I have been told that parts do not interchange but have not tried it.
I was also told that the overall length is 1/4" shorter, but I have never done a comparison measurement

But it is 8mm Mauser and all I wanted was the style anyway.
And it was only $80 plus shipping

Several sites are offering Nazi marked mausers for around $200

don't try and rewrite history
He wasn't trying to rewrite history. He was recounting a statement made by someone who was a part of that history.
 

Scorch

New member
Good post, Limeyfellow.

As a M98 enthusiast, some things to watch for.
German K98 rifles are identified by a 3 letter code stamped into the receiver. It will be in lower case letters stamped into the front ring. There are books on M98 codes and their meaning.

On pre-war and early wartime production, the finish is quite good and the metal is very high quality. On late wartime production, the finish looks very poor and the metal shows a lot of porosity. Some are so porous I would consider them unsafe for use with modern ammo.

On pre-war rifles, wood and furniture finish was pretty good. On later rifles, the quality of the wood deteriorated and the furniture went from castings and machine parts to stamped sheet metal, then to metal strapping towards the end of the war.

You can find good rifles at gun shows and from collectors. Good ones to find are any of the South American army German-made rifles, pre-war K98s and post-war K98s. keep in mind that the 98 and its variants were still issued to armies well into the late 1950s. Many very fine examples come from Egypt, Israel and Persian army stocks from the post-war era.

To sort through the gun show garbage, make sure serial numbers on all parts match (receiver, bolt, magazine floorplate, bolt stop, stocks). If they don't, it's a parts gun and of suspect quality. Check the bore and the trigger. Check the tang area of the stock for cracks. Check the crossbolt for looseness. If possible, take the action out of the wood and look for dry rot in the wood. Unfortunately, you will have to sort through a lot of so-so rifles to find a good one. Good luck!
 
WOW thanks!! Whats a cross bolt:confused: :D
How do these shoot? I am looking for a cost effect and accurate first rifle- dont want a walmart mass produced thing, I want something with a little individuality. I dunno, maybe if you guys come across a good one or have a good one you could seriosuly let me know-ffl and all that will be legal. What do you think about the one shown in the link? its a 1938.... It may be pricey but I will pay it:eek: :eek: !
Thanks guys, I know this topic is beat to death-I appreciate the help!!!
-Chase
 

bennnn

New member
right

Scorch and Limeyfellow: great advice, that information will help ME in my quest for the best Yugo examples I can find....
What can you tell me about the Yugo Mauser?
 
The yugos are OK for shooters but they lack when it comes to tack driving accuracy. Mine shoots like 3" at 200 yards and 8" at 500 yards. i bought it cause it was 95 bucks OTD and i can buy 300 rounds of ammo on strippers for 30 bucks. Fun big caliber plinker.

SW
 

Scorch

New member
I looked at the link. It seems like an OK deal, not great not bad. If it has a good bore it will probably be OK. Expect about 2" at 100 yds for most issue rifles, but I had a K98 that shot 2" at 200 yds, so you might get lucky. A lot has to do with how tight the sights are, how good the trigger is, and how good your eyes are.

Most military rifles were/are expected to shoot into 4" at 100 yds, a standard that is over a hundred years old. A man is approximately 21" wide, and battlefield ranges were estimated to be up to 500 yds. Do the math and you can figure out that they wanted an issue rifle to shoot into a man-sized target at battlefield ranges. Most pre-war K98s in decent shape will do it, but I have seen some that were awful and some that would do much better than expected.

The Yugo rifles are kind of a mixed lot, so it depends on which one you are talking about. Early ones were made by DWM and FN, later ones were made on machinery designed by Yugoslavia to just crank out rifles, and they can be pretty bad. The Yugo rifles made in Yugoslavia after about 1935 are copies of the K98k, a shortened K98 action, to save steel and save time.
 

DnPRK

New member
"Whats a cross bolt?"

The cross bolt takes the recoil force from the receiver. It is a square cross-section bolt through the stock just below the forward portion of the receiver. It has a round head on one side and a round spanner nut on the other. The cross bolt must be tight in the stock or accuracy will suffer and the stock can split where the cross bolt is located.
 

Rimrod

New member
I remember walking into stores and looking at barrels full of old foreign military rifles. Usually priced about $55-$70.

Garande? Potatoe?
 

alamo

New member
BS an as issued K98 will not shoot circles around an as issued Garande. The Garande was the best rifle in WW2 and had better sights than the K98 .don't try and rewrite history .


Garande? Potatoe?


I think he means the Rio Garande. That's a river along the Texas - Mexico border. It was named after Juan C. Garande, a Mexican bandito.
 
And for the final question:
Do you think as a first CF rifle a german/yugo mauser k98 or 24/47 is ideal, or would you say, save up for a new rifle of smaller caliber and domestic production, like a savage hunter .223??? Ammo cost is significant which is why that caliber is mentioned. I am also somewhat of a sucker for old things as well. I am kinda juggling options here. I thought that a k98 would be a pretty good choice as your game range is alot more varied and ammo cost is low. In addition accuracy is pretty important,around or under an 1" at 100yrds would be great-no, its pretty much mandatory.
If this doesnt trump tangents I dont know what will (JK)
-Chase
 

270Win

New member
If you want a surplus gun that will consistantly shoot 1" at 100 AND has affordable ammo, prepare to do a LOT of looking. I've only seen a handful of Mausers at my local range that will approach MOA. 2" at 100 is on the better side of average. 3" is more like it, and 4" is on the rougher side of average. And I've seen some that were much worse.

I know a gentleman who considers 3" to 4" at 50 yards (!) a good day for his Mauser.

If not for the ammo cost, I would highly recommend a Swiss K31. Both of mine shoot MOA, and the better of the two even a little under that once in a while. Extremely high quality rifles. Only problem is that ammunition in 7.5x55 Swiss is still pricey.

If MOA accuracy is a dead-set requirement, you would be better served saving up as you mentioned for a well-made domestic rifle like a Remington, Savage or Winchester. All three can be very affordable if buying used. Your caliber choices are still pretty broad.

I would recommend a Remington 700 in .308 if you want to recreate the general feel and punch of the 8mm cartridge, and still have a very accurate bolt-action that is usable on a wide variety of game or whatnot. .308 is available in surplus for cheap just about everywhere. It may not be pennies per round like the 8mm, but it's not far off either. Once you've shot a few hundred rounds out of it, it'll have some of that individuality you covet ;)

On the other hand, many old surplus guns have been reworked to .308, and also fall into your range of acceptability. Accuracy is still a problematic variable with them, though.
 
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