Ejection of '06 Garand cases

[condor bravo]

My three '06 M-1 Garands all insist on ejecting most of the fired cases 10 feet or so in front of the firing line with just a very few rearward or at arms length in front of the line, making recovery 40% at best. It seems that about all rounds loaded with 150s will go forward while a few more of the 168s and 180s will eject to the rear. Yet to try 190s but will do that next. Yesterday a Garand shooter next to me firing the 150 Federal Garand ammunition had every case eject to the rear. When I use that same ammunition, story is the same, about every case forward. Reloads with all bullet weights are 45 grains 4895 or 4064 which I realize could be increased some. What is the consensus, do bullet weights influence direction of ejection, with perhaps the heavier ones resulting in more rearward ejection?

 

[mehavey]

My three '06 M-1 Garands all insist on ejecting most of the fired cases 10 feet or so in front of the firing line

That is the normal Garand ejection pattern: 2 o'clock/6-10-ft in front.

To see why, watch here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYfxzrTar0g
Note that during normal cycling, the OP-rod shoulder is returning to the front when the ejecting case hits it, and the case is thrown in the direction the O-rod is traveling.

Note also that when the clip ejects on shot #8, the Op-rod locks back, and so does not throw the case forward. Instead the case continues to the rear/behind the shooter.

The timing of the OP-rod's return is a complex function of extraction timing/spring constant/and a load that shoves the OP-rod/to stay to the rear just the tiniest fraction (millisecs) longer as the case comes out.

 

[Unclenick]

Yep. Op-rod smacks. You can try a new op-rod spring to see if it helps. This one is very good. But avoid the temptation to use higher power op-rod springs, as they slam the gun closed more vigorously, increasing the odds of a slam fire.

Most of the folks who get Garands to throw all their cases between 4:00 and 5:00, do it by using an adjustable vent gas cylinder plug. See if your match rules allow that. That plug lets them tune how hard the op rod is pushed to the rear. If you get it slowed down just enough, then rather than slam into counter-battery, it will be slowing down by the time it gets there, and the cases will have time to clear the ejection port before the hump returns forward to hit them.

 

[T. O'Heir]

You have' 'em lube correctly? Why can you not pick 'em up from 10 feet?
"...45 grains of 4895 or 4064..." Yep. Two grains below currentminimum. Nothing is going to be damaged though. Used to be 45.0 was the start load for a 168.
TM and FM manuals are here. Note the need for the provided UN & PW.
http://www.biggerhammer.net/manuals/

 

[Unclenick]

He's tossing them out in the grass where they're hard to find. A metal detector might be of use if it happens a lot, but if it's a regular match with more than one relay, there won't be time to deploy the MD until after other folks have already found most of your brass before you. Been to that rodeo.

 

[condor bravo]

Good replies. Will concentrate tomorrow with checking out 180s some more and 190s to try to get a more positive idea if perhaps the heavier bullets might modify the cycling time enough to improve the ejection in a more positive rearward manner.

 

[Unclenick]

In general, gas impulse in the cylinder increases with bullet weight. It's a function of the muzzle pressure and how long the gas port is exposed to that pressure as the bullet base goes from the gas port to the muzzle. Lower muzzle pressure and faster bullet transit will lower the impulse. So I think you're more likely to get more manageable ejection with light bullets. There are guys shooting 110 and 125 grain bullets out of Garands. You get to use a faster powder, like 3031 or even 4198, and that reduces the gas cylinder impulse further.

 

[condor bravo]

OK, I guess I was thinking more or less in the opposite direction, that more barrel time with the heavier bullets might alter the cycling and ejection in the desired direction. Will post tomorrow the results with the 180s and 190s. With 150s it seems that invariably all but the last ejected case with the clip are out of convenient reach.

 

[Slamfire]

I have never had regular predictable ejection in a 30-06 Garand. My 308 NM is pretty good at tossing rounds into my forehead, but the 30-06 versions, brass goes everywhere. I have found my cases behind me. Evidentially my Garand vigorously tossed the round out to the right, it rebounded off the shooter's head on that firing point, and arc'd back , landing behind me. I have been warped any number of times by the shooter behind me. Just part of the fun shooting in Garand matches.

Back in the day, everyone wore the Marine Campaign Hat, because during matches, Garand brass would be falling like snowflakes in a snow storm. The wide brim protected the shooter from burns on the head and neck.

My SuperMatch M1a is really good at placing all brass forward of the line on the right, must be the gas system.

 

[condor bravo]

Follow up firing from yesterday's posts checking recovery of ejected cases fired with heavier bullets:

Limited firing of heavier bullets from the Garand seems to show some promise of better case recovery. Twelve rounds each of Sierra 180s and 190s with 45 grains 4895 were fired. Seven out of the 180s were readily recovered within arm's length distance or so, and eight of the 190s recovered the same. Combined total of 15 out of 24 amounts to 62% which is an improvement over the usual 40% or less, mostly with 150s. More checking of course needs to be done to see if the higher percentage will hold up. Will also check Unclenick's suggestion of trying 125s for the Garand.

 

[Slamfire]

Twelve rounds each of Sierra 180s and 190s with 45 grains 4895 were fired. Seven out of the 180s were readily recovered within arm's length distance or so, and eight of the 190s recovered the same

Sierra 180s are a bit on the heavy side for that action. The heaviest I will fire is a 175. 190's are very heavy and I would be concerned with bending your operating rod. I suppose you could fire 190s, there was an NRA article once, I think the velocities with 190's were around 2300 fps. I tried 190's once, beat the heck up out of the rifle and me. I used a vented gas cylinder lock, still, results were awful.

With a Garand or M1a, going lighter is easier on the gun than going heavier. If your number one concern is ejection pattern, have a friend toss cases out at your feet and yell bang! You don't even have to shoot anything.

 

[condor bravo]

Yes, 190s are probably about the limit with 45 gr 4895, and wouldn't jump to 200s without reducing the powder charge. No perceivable change in recoil from the lighter bullet loads but the primers were starting to flatten some. Of course couldn't tell if the op-rod was complaining or not. But was nice that more ejected cases were within reasonable reach. Will probably stick mostly with 180s and 168s but I do have some 130s yet to try out.