Eighty years ago today...

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SaxonPig

New member
S&W delivered the very first 357 Magnum with serial 45768 and the highly coveted Reg. No. 1, to J. Edgar Hoover. Records reveal it was shipped with 8.75 inch barrel, equipped with a 1/10 inch Patridge front sight, blue finish, checkered walnut grips, with grip adapter attached.

Hoover died in 1972. The whereabouts of this valuable revolver is unknown. Once it was presented to Hoover it disappeared from public view and nobody, other than Hoover and anyone close to him he may have chosen to show it to, has seen it since. If he ever fired it it there is no record of it. The revolver's history once presented to Hoover is a total mystery as is its current location.

S&W collectors speculate that were the gun to turn up and be offered at auction, a $100,000 selling price would not be surprising. Hoover's Registered Magnum is generally considered to be the Holy Grail in gun collecting.

As far as I know, the revolver carries no special identifying features like engraving or other embellishments. In my opinion it was likely given away by Hoover shortly after receiving it as he was not much interested in firearms and shooting. Some FBI employee or a family member likely wound up with it and right now it's lying in a sock drawer with the present owner completely unaware of its significance or value.
 
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Bob Wright

New member
I'd be surprised if it still sported that 8 3/4" barrel. I would guess that it may have been fitted with a 3 1/2" barrel to conform to the FBI standard revolvers.

And, for the record, it truly was 8 3/4" at the time. Later the length was shortened to 8 3/8" length to conform to United States Revolver Association specs regarding maximum sight radius.

Bob Wright
 
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DaleA

New member
I can see it now...someone finds the S&W revolver serial number 1 in some of Hoover's old stuff (or maybe in a hidden wall safe in his last house!) and the first question asked will be:

"Was the box there too?"
 
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DaleA

New member
Just had a thought...

Last week (April 1st) would have been the perfect time to list it on GunBroker.
 
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10-96

New member
That's cool stuff. But I thought the holy grail handgun in general was the missing .45ACP Luger?
 
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SaxonPig

New member
I don't believe the 45 Luger (one of 2) is missing. I think it was so badly damaged in testing it was scrapped.
 
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trigger643

New member
There were as many as 6 .45acp Lugers constructed for the US Trials, but only 2 were delivered to the Army for Testing (ser#1 and #2). #1 was destroyed in trials. #2 sold a few years back for $1,000,000 at auction. An unnumbered "GL" .45 with a magazine #3 has been in the Norton collection for quite a number of years (over 50?) and is on display at the Norton Gallery in Shreveport.

Another .45 luger surfaced in the form of a carbine, ser# 21 and was authenticated and owned by Ralph Shattuck, noted Luger authority (now deceased). Experts that examined this carbine felt it was converted from one of the 4 left at the factory and not used in trials.


We'll find Hoover's #1 registered magnum with the rest of his lady's undergarments.
 
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FITASC

New member
.45 Lugers weren't THAT rare - an older gent I knew had a friend in MI pick one up a few years ago for about $750 from a gun shop. There were some made for the the US civilian market
 
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44 AMP

Staff
.45 Lugers weren't THAT rare
Click to expand...

How do you define "aren't all THAT rare"?

I don't know if there are any "official" standards, but I took a look through the standard catalog of Luger (Davis 2006), not for .45 Lugers (which he does list the 1906, ser#2), but to check a few and see relative rarity listing.

Under 1,000 made he calls very rare. under 10,000, rare, under 100,000 uncommon, and over that, common

Over the years there have been some very ..focused individuals who have essentially hand built Luger in .45ACP. Some were entirely hand built, some were 2 (9mm) into 1 .45 frame with the rest of the parts hand made. (and for the record, by hand made, I mean with machinist skill and non CNC tooling, lathe, mill, etc.)

I doubt there were ever more than a few hundred .45 Lugers, totaling all the guns made by the few "mad machinists" (aka dedicated hobbyist) who have done it.

one fellow I heard of said he would do 100 guns, total, period (meaning ever), at $10,000 each. Never heard if he ever did them, or even any.

I'd say any .45 Luger is very rare, and of course the single surviving 1906 Test gun is absolutely unique.

I think Tales of the Gun did a bit on it, calling it the $1million dollar gun.

Guns like that, the original .45 Luger, the #1 Registered Magnum, ser#1 Colt SAA and a handful of others are "unobtainium" for nearly all of us, but we can take joy in the fact that they did, and some still do verifiably exist.
 
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old bear

New member
Back to Hoover’s registered Magnum.

From my reading at the Smith and Wesson Forum, registered Magnum number 1 is in a private collection. The current owner is known to a few big dollar Smith and Wesson collectors. I also understand that recent photos of it appear in a recently published book about the .357 magnum. I further understand that the condition of Hoover’s registered Magnum is believed to be fair to good. If the aforementioned is correct, I would believe that the first “collector” to own it was not the person who got it from Hoover.

Don't we all just love a mystery?
 
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Sevens

New member
Since the thread has drifted a bit in to .45cal Luger pistols and rarity... what does anyone know about some of the Savage .45cal pistols that were involved in the Government trials that eventually chose the Browning design?

I can across a .45cal Savage in the middle of a table at a collector's show, the pistol wasn't really "for sale" so to speak, it was more on display than anything. He said he got it from some Savage Museum somewhere out in one of the open western states that ended up closing and selling off their items.

Was this the real deal? How rare is something like this?

Also, at a different date but the same show, I came across another gent with a North American Arms 1911 and that one is supposed to be extremely rare as well, no?
 
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Mike Irwin

Staff
Yes. Savage made several hundred .45 ACP pistols for the 1906-1911 Army trials that resulted in the adoption of the Colt 1911.

This doesn't say how much this one sold for, but take a look at the estimated price range, and that will give you an idea how desirable they are.

http://www.rockislandauction.com/viewitem/aid/55/lid/3724

Supposed the Savage had rather savage recoil and was prone to cracks and parts breakage in the endurance tests.
 
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Mike Irwin

Staff
As for the North American Arms 1911s, they are also very rare, and have been faked.

I was working for American Rifleman when we did a short blurb on the NAA 1911.

Some months later the curator of the museum came up to our offices with NAA 1911 serial number 6 or something like that, which had just been donated to the National Firearms Museum by a life member whose father had been in the Army helping to get the plant in Quebec up and running.

Again, this auction recap from Rock Island will give you some more information.

http://www.rockislandauction.com/viewitem/aid/55/lid/1750
 
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RJay

New member
Holding that firearm would be like holding a new born baby, I would be scared of dropping it and get the shakes.
 
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Peter M. Eick

New member
I would much rather have the 22 long rifle Registered Magnum that is still lost to the winds of history then Registration number 1.

Then again, I am pretty pleased with Reg number 53XX

registration_number.jpg
 
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