Education Of The Misinformed Voter

[TheBluesMan]

From a posting in the General Forum entitled Gun Disease:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>denfoote

Tyranny is the disease, armed citizens are the cure!!



foxfire

And 'education' of the misinformed/uninformed masses is the vaccine...[/quote]



I think that these two are right on the money. I've seen and heard many people complain about the government and discuss who has the right to rule, the people or the government. The fact is that the ones who run the government are put there by the people. If we really want the government to be responsive, we need to vote some of the lowlifes out of office and send some people who truly represent us. The problem is the misinformed/uninformed voter.



I would amend what denfoote wrote above to say that armed citizens that voteare the cure. Foxfire has the key to this: Education. Arming citizens isn't the answer (but it helps), educating citizens and encouraging them to vote is the answer. Of course, this answer ultimately brings up another question: How?



I am now preaching to the choir. Most of us here all believe in the same basic principles of personal responsibility, morality and honor. The problem is reaching out to those that don't believe as we do and trying, in some small way, to change their view. This is done by preaching to the unwashed/unbelieving masses, usually one at a time.



This is a difficult thing to do, to go out among the "savages" and preach the word. Many of our group here have done exactly that. This brings me back to my question of "How?" It may be helpful to all of us to share a few stories of how we have struck up conversations with "antis" or with "neutrals" and let them know that it isn't a bad thing to have and know how to use a gun. I'm hoping to hear some ideas I can use on my in-laws. They're not anti, but they're not comfortable with the idea that I keep and bear arms.



So, if you have a personal anecdote, please share it. I'm sure it will be useful to me and maybe others as well.



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RKBA!

"The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security"
Ohio Constitution, Article I, Section 4
Concealed Carry is illegal in Ohio.
Ohioans for Concealed Carry Website

 

[adad]

You hit the nail on the head. We gotta convince folks that the RKBA exists for a reason. We have to counter the lies and misinformation of the mass news media.

I've read a couple of books lately that have given me some ideas how this might be done. One is "More Guns Less Crime" by John Lott Jr. I can't recall the title of the other one, but its true accounts of ordinary people using firearms to defend themselves. Both are pretty amazing books.

But no anti and very few "neutrals" will read them (especially Lott's book -- its very understandable but its kinda tough going at times when he goes into the necessary details to back up his conclusions). So what to do?

I'm considering creating some good old-fashioned political pamphlets with a summary of one or two true-life stories of those who've defended themselves or their family or someone else with a gun. I would include a few of Lott's conclusions with a reference to the book for those who want the details.

I know this sounds hokey, but I think most neutrals will at least take a second to read a pamphlet, especially if you have a good "hook" on the front cover. And some antis will read it just to see what whacked-out things the "NRA crowd" is "trying to push." They might be surprised.

Another pamphlet I'd like to do will show some examples of the mass media bias with regard to guns, how they twist and spin most news stories related to guns into propaganda for the anti-gun crowd.

Well, that's what I would like to do, but you know what they say about good intentions, so we'll see if I can actually sit my butt down at the computer and actually do it. And then have the guts to hand them out!

I think it's an idea that's worth a try. I could have one or two web addresses of org's that are fighting for RKBA or that document media bias on this issue to help get them further involved and informed. Who knows?

One last thing -- I followed a link from a TFL thread to a guy's web page who's done some reasearch into actual requests for CCW permits that were denied in several counties in the San Fransisco bay area (he should have free access to this public information, BTW, but he's run into substantial resistance to give it out). It looks like he's got some pretty good evidence that people aren't being treated equally under the law, so he's going to court over the fact that he wasn't issued a CCW in his county based on that evidence (don't know where that court battle has gone - haven't kept up on it).

One of the more interesting things he seems to have found is the percentage of CCW's denied to minorities. I think this hidden discrimination (if that is what is going on) should be exposed to the light of day. Minority groups who need and could benefit the most from CCW permits are being denied them, apparently based on their race (although this would have to be shown with good documentation). The fact that minorities receive fewer CCW's in a county in which they make up a substantial percentage of the population certainly needs to be explained.

To be honest, we need to reach these groups with our message as most of them (certainly not all, but most) tend to support anti-gun legislation pretty consistently. I think pamphlets showing the hypocracy of the left in this area would be devastating to the anti-gun manipulators.

I haven't completely thought all this out and I don't know that I have enough confirmed information to go ahead with a project like this, but it seems like it may be possible to have a strong effect on the RKBA debate in this country by by-passing the mass media and getting the truth directly to the people.


NOTE: I hope no one is offended by my suggestion of getting the RKBA message out to minority groups, as if I'm saying they all think and act the same. I know that that isn't the case. Heck, I'm married to a member of a minority/ethnic group (she may not be a gun "nut", but she can hit what she's aiming at with the shotgun!)

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Wound ballistics is the study of effects on the body produced by penetrating projectiles:
Wound Ballistics

Great daily commentary from a thoughtful Christian perspective:
Daily Commentary

[This message has been edited by adad (edited January 24, 2000).]

 

[Jack 99]

Sorry to be the pessimist in the crowd. We're screwed. The idea that all it takes is education and commitment isn't too realistic, IMHO. First of all, we have to presume that there are masses of ill-informed voters HUNGRY for knowledge and reason. While there are just a couple of folks in that category, its apparent the great mass of the electorate is willfully ignorant.

The flip side of that is that with every new entitlement, we create a person who is now a beneficiary of gubmint spending. You can even persuasivley argue that every time a gubmint job is created, we have a voter who's own self interest lies in creating more gubmint jobs (you gotta supervise somebody), creating more gubmint emplyees/voters who's self interest is tied to creating more gubmint jobs and so on and soon you can even get the most low-down lying scumbag elected so long as the gravy train keeps on coming. Witness Bill Clinton and (gulp) possibly Al Gore. Its no coincendence that Marion Barry can get re-elected in Washington DC after a drug conviction, something like one in five voters there works for the city.

In short, we all act in our own self interest and we've created a whole class of people who's self interest is tied to expansion of government at all levels. Call it "Democracy's paradox." If we had stayed true to the Constitution and LIMITED Federal Govt, we may have been OK, but it's one of those genies that just ain't going back in the bottle.

I talk to a lot of the old people in my area and they are convinced that Bill Clinton single-handedly saved their Social Security check from the evil Republicans (the AARP has told them as much). They aren't even aware (and probably don't care) that they're supporting the greatest threat to the Constitution since FDR, they just want that check each month.

Wish I had answers, but we're way, way behind the curve at this point. I'm encouraged when I see people like Keyes ahead in internet polls, but then they don't fare so well in REAL polls so now where do we sit? Are there multitudes of Constitutionalists sitting somewhere, surfing on their computers who feel they've done their part by going to vote.com? I don't know, but that's a distinct possibility.

Rant out.

 

[TheBluesMan]

Jack 99,



Unfortunately I can't argue with anything that you said. Man, you really are a pessimist aren't you? Now I got TheBlues.



I know you said that you don't have any answers, but I trust that you haven't completely given up hope just yet. If not, then maybe you would have some suggestions of what you think we can do. I refuse to think that "all is lost" and so I'll just eat worms and die. We've got to do something, and changing even one person's mind could make a difference.



------------------
RKBA!

"The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security"
Ohio Constitution, Article I, Section 4
Concealed Carry is illegal in Ohio.
Ohioans for Concealed Carry Website

 

[Jack 99]

Actually, I'm just a little extra pessimistic today. Must be the weather.

Yes, changing minds where we can makes a difference. We just have to keep in mind that every new entitlement plan creates a few hundred thousand people who now fit into the category I described. The battle is mostly uphill. For my part, yes I do occasionally talk to people and I will vote for Keyes in the primary.

You also have to understand, the Socialist agenda is very subtle and affects politics in very intricate ways. Think about how many blue collar union members vote a Liberal Democratic ticket because those are the politicos who are most pro-union, then go shooting on the weekend and bitch about the stupid law that only allows 10 rounds in the mag. Once we started on the "Govt as Nanny" entitlement scheme, we probably sealed our own fate. Only time will tell of course.



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"Put a rifle in the hands of a Subject, and he immediately becomes a Citizen." -- Jeff Cooper

"The fact is that the average man's love of liberty is nine-tenths imaginary, exactly like his love of sense, justice and truth. He is not actually happy when free; he is uncomfortable, a bit alarmed, and intolerably lonely. Liberty is not a thing for the great masses of men. It is the exclusive possession of a small and disreputable minority, like knowledge, courage and honor. It takes a special sort of man to understand and enjoy liberty - and he is usually an outlaw in democratic societies." -- H.L. Mencken, February 12, 1923, Baltimore Evening Sun

 

[Ed Brunner]

Dont generalize yourself into the wrong conclusions and give up.
I am a check cashing old fart who doesnt believe a word the AARP says.
The biggest enemy we have is not the government it is the media. And the media is educating our citizens.

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Better days to be,

Ed

 

[RMc]

Speaking of education, what shape will we be in when the latest crop of spoiled, out-of-control, mind-numbed kids reach voting age? The public schools have turned into nothing more than breeding grounds for the future statists of Amerika and their subjects (a.k.a. sheeple). These kids have been spoon-fed all the statist "wonders" from gun control to eco-bull to welfare state nonsense.

The main lesson ingrained in them from the gitgo is that you should not think for yourself, should not question. They will grow up believing that the government loves them and would never lie. Therefore, the vast majority of these kids aren't very likely to support the RKBA and/or become NRA members or show support for limited government since this is contrary to their training.

How do we compete with this? How do we unravel 18-22 years of statist indoctrination? We have the media that perpetuate the same line where the schools leave off, so we certainly can't expect much to change on that front. There are exceptions, but they are, as we are, awash in a sea of statist drones.

We let the statists take the schools and now we are paying the price.

How's that for pessimism?

I guess there's always the "Unintended Consequences" scenario if all else fails.

 

[adad]

Jack99 and RMc:

Gotta agree w/ you Jack. This is, of course, one of the dangers of a true democracy that the framers of the constitution talked about. I vaguely remember a quote that predicted that democracy would begin to unravel when the masses could vote to take money from the "rich," which is basically where we're at. The government just distributes the spoils.

RMc, you're right about the schools. That's why my kids don't go to government schools. You'd be surprised how many folks these days would rather do the job themselves or scrimp and pinch-pennies to send their kids to a decent private school (while paying for the government schools).

Sorry, but I still think there's hope. Jack99 is right about the self-interest thing. But we can use that to our advantage. We just gotta make people see that the government is keeping something of value from them. They won't stand for that. Especially if we can show clear evidence of discrimination.

And the brain-washed kids. That one's tougher, but we do have a precedent for turning things around in one generation: the sixties. Although they had one thing on their side: pleasure. But we have the truth.

I think we're heading for a watershed soon and we need to make hay while the sun's shining. Nothing stays the same. If I'm not mistaken, we're headed for some major economic turmoil in the not-to-distant future. And then there's China. Pretty scary things just over the horizon.

In the final analysis, however, none of this is going to make a hill o' beans if people continue to reject The Truth -- the God Who died for their sins, the Messiah, Jesus the Christ. I know, go ahead, groan away. But the RKBA is but one battle for the truth going on right now. The right to keep our guns isn't going to be around much longer if people continue to believe the lie that there are no moral absolutes and that all truth is relative. You can't win arguments with reletivists because there is no truth. And morals and truth only make sense if there is One Who is the source of truth. (This isn't a Sunday School exercise, guys. Some of the top philosophers of our time are very smart and well educated Christian philosophers who can hold their own in a debate with anyone and they're pounding away at the crumbling foundations of the Skeptics -- and winning).

We've been living on borrowed time. It might seem like we can have both worlds, un-ending wealth and unbridled hedonism while believing that there is no truth or morals. But it can't last. In fact, the prosperity enjoyed today by so many in America wouldn't be possible were it not for the "pruds" and "religious fundamentalist fanatics" who started this nation and laid such a solid foundation.

So I fight both battles (see the link below for great Christian apologetics info). They aren't the same, so I won't confuse the two -- RKBA is not Christianity and Christianity doesn't need RKBA. But who wants to be a slave when they can have both and be free men, truly free?

Both battles are important, but the battle for men's souls is the highest calling and that's where my ultimate hope lies. Don't forget, BTW, that the folks who gave us our freedoms were ardent believers and good shots. We need a lot more guys (and gals) like that.

------------------
Wound ballistics is the study of effects on the body produced by penetrating projectiles:
Wound Ballistics

Great daily commentary from a thoughtful Christian perspective:
Daily Commentary

 

[Karanas]

This is actually a two sided problem. Educating the misinformed is one thing, actually getting them to go to the polls is another!
Our electorate has been getting more apathetic every year. I can't remember where I read this, but according to an evaluation of the last presidential election, Klinton was voted into a second term by only 16% of the eligible voters in this country.(Hey Rich, we could really use a puke smilie!)
If we can't find some way to light a fire under the butts of all these non-voters, we'll never change anything.

 

[TheBluesMan]

Karanas makes a very good point. I'm sure there is a very large contingency of people who are pro-gun, but don't vote. I can think of at least two in my own family

This is another trick altogether. Getting them motivated (re. RKBA) and getting them to the polls. I would like to think that this would be the easiest group of people to get to help our cause. I think I'll start in on my uncle tonight...

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RKBA!

"The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security"
Ohio Constitution, Article I, Section 4
Concealed Carry is illegal in Ohio.
Ohioans for Concealed Carry Website

 

[ernest2]

To address the question posed by BluesMan
"How to Educate the Masses to the Pro-Gun
Point of View" I have given some thought
to this matter in the past.

STUFF THAT WORKS SIX OUT OF TEN TIMES.

1. http://www.jpfo.org/ has pro-gun comic
books designed to get the pro-gun viewpoint
across to the commic book sheeple mentality of todays high school graduates.

These books are all printed up and ready to go--All you need to do is buy some and hand them out.

2. Invite the neutral or anti gunner to go shooting with you to your gun club or range.

You will need to give them some firearms safety training before going to the range.
Start them off with a .22 lr as they will be shooting your guns and your ammo and 22lr
is almost dirt cheap.

When they ask to shoot 9mm or 38 spl or .357 or whatever your centerfire cal is ;
then you will need to ask them to pay for the ammo they shoot.

After they get hooked & want to start shooting with you every week end it is time for you to take them to the gun shop and the local NRA certified pistol safety instructor.

It can be a chore to go out shooting a lot with a bunch of newbees--I know--I been
doing this for 15 years, but you sure do end up with a lot of shooting buddies.

Its worth the personal time & effort, I think!

Reading the big pro-gun tombs (800 page)
10 pound pro - gun books, is a big failure for most people.

I know because as a NRA certified pistol
safety instructor--I have had problems getting people in my course to read the
NRA basic pistol safety book at only 132
pages.

I finally countered this problem by telling them that the course test was INFORMATION SPECIFIC and that there was
no way in h~ll that they could pass the
test without reading the book.

www.jpfo.org ALREADY KNEW THIS and therefore the comic book approach.

This of course reminds me of one of my favorite sayings: Never underestimate the stupidity of liberal sheeple; they have been govt trained for it!

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In 2000, we must become
politically active
in support of gun rights
or we WILL LOSE the right
& the freedom.

NO FATE BUT WHAT WE MAKE!!!

Every year,over 2 million Americans use firearms
to preserve life,limb & family.Gun Control Democrats
would prefer that they are all disarmed and helpless and die,instead.

ernest2, Conn. CAN opp. "Do What You Can"!
http://thematrix.acmecity.com/digital/237/cansite/can.html