Earliest issuance of a semi auto pistol by an LE agency?
- Thread starter SIGSHR
- Start date
dogtown tom
New member
Both the FN/Browning 1910 & 1922 in .32 & .380 were issued to law enforcement agencies in several European countries prior to WWII.
U.S. police departments took awhile to warm up to the idea.
U.S. police departments took awhile to warm up to the idea.
Mark Milton
Moderator
Some US police agencies issued the .38 auto, the .380 auto and the .32, usually in the form of Colt and Savage pocket pistols back in the roaring 20s.
The .38 super was not unknown in the FBI back in the 30s and the Texas Rangers often carried .45 acp 1911 pistols, albiet most of their guns were bought by individual rangers, and not issued.
The .38 super was not unknown in the FBI back in the 30s and the Texas Rangers often carried .45 acp 1911 pistols, albiet most of their guns were bought by individual rangers, and not issued.
Pbearperry
New member
The 45 auto was used by a lot of LE people in the South Western states long before the 60's.
Dfariswheel
New member
There's a difference between "used by" and "issued by".
The automatic pistol has been "used by" law enforcement from the very earliest days.
There's the case of killer Tom Horn's attempted jail break in which he used a deputy's Luger. Story was that Horn couldn't figure out how to get the safety off.
Other's say that a top gun handler like Horn would instantly know about the safety.
The auto pistol was first "issued by" American LE in the early 1900's, just as soon as they were being made in America by Colt.
In these early days, the guns were Colt/Browning .32 and .380 "pocket autos".
The automatic pistol has been "used by" law enforcement from the very earliest days.
There's the case of killer Tom Horn's attempted jail break in which he used a deputy's Luger. Story was that Horn couldn't figure out how to get the safety off.
Other's say that a top gun handler like Horn would instantly know about the safety.
The auto pistol was first "issued by" American LE in the early 1900's, just as soon as they were being made in America by Colt.
In these early days, the guns were Colt/Browning .32 and .380 "pocket autos".
You're probably right about the Illinois State Police being the first police agency to issue semis as duty sidearms to regular officers. While their were a number of agencies and local PDs that allowed for autos the regular officers were not required to carry them.
The Colt M1903, the Walther PPK and PP, the Savage were all used as backup guns and concealed carry by police for decades as was the 1911 in .38 Super and .45 used by a number of outfits and individuals.
tipoc
The Colt M1903, the Walther PPK and PP, the Savage were all used as backup guns and concealed carry by police for decades as was the 1911 in .38 Super and .45 used by a number of outfits and individuals.
tipoc
Jim is right on the money. Some departments still have no standardization in handguns. I do not see that as a negative, a self defense handgun is a very personal thing. Within reason you should be allowed to carry what you want. The ISP was the main trendsetter if I remember correctly, they went through a lot of problems with 9mm ammo. They are the reason the 9mm is what it is today.
deputy tom
New member
I can't verify this but I read in a gun magazine several years ago that the NYPD issued .32 cal. Colt's 1903 model pistols when they first were released.tom.
The ISP was the first agency to issue autos and also the 9mm. Salt Lake City PD was 2nd. A lot of agencies allowed their officers to carry autos but no agency was issuing autos prior to 1968.
If was first adopted in late 1967 with the first ones being issued in 1968. We carried S&W autos until 2000 when we transitioned to Glock. Not that we didn't want to stay with S&W but when Glock shot a price of 1/2 what S&W bid then there was no choice but go Glock.
Many of the changes to the S&W auto and 9mm ammo was a direct result of suggestions made by our range officers.
The 39-nothing pictured below was one of the first year issues. I carried it until 1981 when we went to 439. All the 39-nothings were stamped with "ILL S.P." and an inventory number. Some of the 39-2 models were so stamped. The number is not the Troop's ID number as some places have reported. Back then the state of IL purchasing rules required every piece of state equipment valued over $100 to have an inventory number. Serial numbers weren't good enough. Even squad cars had to have an inventory number. That law was later changed if the manufacturer had a unique and recognized system for assigning serial numbers.
We were allowed to buy our issued guns when we went to new models. It's got a super slick trigger from our range guys tuning it and from having a ton of ammo run thru it. With a good handload it will cut the X ring all day long on a 25 yd bullseye target.
RE the FBI and the .38 Super. The field offices still had .38 Supers in the vaults into the late 70s. Hoover was not a fan of autos. He considered them to be gangster's guns. The .38 Supers were for issue to agents who would be going undercover and needed a 'gangster gun' to carry instead of the issued Colt or S&W revolver.
If was first adopted in late 1967 with the first ones being issued in 1968. We carried S&W autos until 2000 when we transitioned to Glock. Not that we didn't want to stay with S&W but when Glock shot a price of 1/2 what S&W bid then there was no choice but go Glock.
Many of the changes to the S&W auto and 9mm ammo was a direct result of suggestions made by our range officers.
The 39-nothing pictured below was one of the first year issues. I carried it until 1981 when we went to 439. All the 39-nothings were stamped with "ILL S.P." and an inventory number. Some of the 39-2 models were so stamped. The number is not the Troop's ID number as some places have reported. Back then the state of IL purchasing rules required every piece of state equipment valued over $100 to have an inventory number. Serial numbers weren't good enough. Even squad cars had to have an inventory number. That law was later changed if the manufacturer had a unique and recognized system for assigning serial numbers.
We were allowed to buy our issued guns when we went to new models. It's got a super slick trigger from our range guys tuning it and from having a ton of ammo run thru it. With a good handload it will cut the X ring all day long on a 25 yd bullseye target.
RE the FBI and the .38 Super. The field offices still had .38 Supers in the vaults into the late 70s. Hoover was not a fan of autos. He considered them to be gangster's guns. The .38 Supers were for issue to agents who would be going undercover and needed a 'gangster gun' to carry instead of the issued Colt or S&W revolver.
chris in va
New member
I love it when someone comes along and clears the air with actual experience.