Dumb questions on California Hand Guns rules

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kraigwy

New member
Got to reading a post about someone wanting a hand gun, but brand X wasn't on the California Approved List.

Got my curious so I found the "approved handgun list"

Some dumb questions popped up.

The Smith Model 66 is on the list the Model 64 isn't ???? Huh???

I noticed all the guns have an expiration date. OK if Gun X is safe today, how can it be unsafe next month????

I also didn't see the Series 70 Gold Cup, but other Colt 1911s, why?

If you buy Gun Y today, and it's approval expires next year, what happens?


No real reason for these questions, just curious.

PS I LOVE WYOMING and our gun laws, (or lack there of)
 
C

CowTowner

New member
I can partially answer this one for you as I'm an ex-patriot of the PRC.
Manufacturers must submit gun models for testing, along with the fee, on an annual basis. If they decide to not pay the fee for that model for year, then it is dropped from the list.
Hence the reason for at least one lawsuit against the state, Pena v Cid.
More info here: http://dockets.justia.com/docket/california/caedce/2:2009at00683/191440/
As to the last question.... ex post factos rules the day. You may not be able to buy a new one any longer, but you can buy/sell/transfer a used gun following the state laws which means using an FFL and a waiting period.
 
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Crazy88Fingers

New member
I was on Bud's the other day and noticed that some old S&W model 10s they received were not legal in California. I suppose this explains why one of the most basic and trustworthy firearms ever built isn't allowed.
 
A

aarondhgraham

New member
When it comes to California politicians and their gun laws,,,

Stop trying to find sense in them,,,
There isn't any.

I get to use one of my favorite movie quotes again:

Do not try to understand them,,,
And do not try to make them understand you,,,
For they are a breed apart, and make no sense.

Hawkeye speaking to Cora

Aarond
 
S

Slopemeno

New member
Kraig-

That means the 66 wasn't submitted for testing, nothing more. Do they even make the 66 anymore? I thought all K-frame magnums had been discontinued?

The Series 70 GC might not be able to pass the drop test for whatever reason, or they simply didn't submit it. IIRC it costs the manufacturers about $3000 per gun model to submit for testing, plus paying the lab that does the testing.

The shop I used to work for (Scott, McDougall and Associates) used to be the handgun testing lab for California for a decade or so. I didn't work there at the time but Doug used to tell me about all the goings-on with that program. Guns are tested for things like dependability, drop-safety, etc. He said his least favorite thing was testing things like Ruger Alaskans...for hours and hours. He tried to talk me into helping but I was, uh, busy that weekend.

The certification of the testing on a model expire after a couple of years, and the model has to be re-submitted. If a gun drops off the list, it just means it can't be sold as new. Used ones are fine.

Keep in mind single actions aren't on the list, but are sold in CA. Used guns are 100% fine, even if they aren't on the list. If someone owns an "off-list" gun and they move into CA, the only hitch would be things like magazines with a mag capacity above 10 shots, or any "evil features".

The Model 10's Crazy88fingers mentions are treated as new, since they would be, in essence, being imported into the state for sale. I'm surprised someone hasn't submitted those for testing and tried to get them approved for sale...

Bottom line, it's not too hard to understand, and finding what you want for sale used is often an answer.
 
J

jmortimer

Moderator
The law was enacted to do away with Jennings, Bryco etc. - inexpensive handguns for working folks. If we did not have the largest state population we would have very few handguns to pick from. The list is fairly long considering how worthless this state has become.
 
W

.wheelgunner.

New member
The series 70 Gold Cup is allowed even though it might not be on the list.

Kalifornians can get a list of guns on the ATF's "Curio and Relic" booklet. Any handgun on that list (as long as it isn't specifically prohibited, such as mag guns with more than ten round cap mag) can be imported into in the People's Republic. The Gold Cup is on that list, IIRC.

Also, any gun over 50 years old is a "C&R." 29s, etc, can also be imported.
 
M

Massan

New member
The CA DOJ handgun list is plain stupidity(or genius on part of lawmakers to restrict our rights).

Using your example, Smith Model 66 is good until Feb 1, 2012(probaly not actual date by example still stands) so you can buy at FFLs, gunshows etc until it expires. When Feb 2, 2012 rolls around, if S&W did not pay the "extortion" fees to the state of California to resubmit the Model 66 for renewal, all Model 66 must be removed from FFLs because it is no longer a "safe" gun to sell. Ownership and private party is still allowed, you just can't buy it in gun shops anymore.

Want more examples of stupidity?

Gun A is on roster and manufacter decides to make Gun B which is the same except Gun B uses a stainless slide instead of a parkerized one. Gun B is "unsafe" because it is not on the roster therefore it cannot be sold in CA.
 
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Uncle Buck

New member
I am tagging this. People have asked me if I understand the California handgun laws and I have to tell them honestly, I do not.

How does a handgun expire? Besides looks, what is the difference between a parkerized slide and a stainless steel slide?
 
M

Massan

New member
Basically an expiration date that CA DOJ sets. Only way to renew the expiration date is for the manufacter to resubmit the same model and pay yet another "renewal" fee to keep that model on the roster.

As for the difference between the slides, pretty much nothing. I suppose the parkerized slide will be more resistant to corrosion and scratches but its pretty much purely cosmetic. However, because the models will have different model numbers due to the cosmetic differences the one not listed on roster cant be sold, even though everything is the same.

Shameless plug, for all those that live in Cali or would like a better understanding on the crazy laws there refer to www.calguns.net
 
B

blume357

New member
Obviously a prime example of 'infringement' to me... but then between politicians and lawyers the meaning of words can change....

totally unrelated example....

in my state, S.C., gambling is illegal... it is in the state constitution... but then the state lottery is not gambling... according to the legislature.
 
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Gary Wells

New member
This was never about Jennings, Ravens, and / or any Saturday Night Special. It is and always has been about the Benjamins ($$$).
 
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jmortimer

Moderator
$$$ is often behind legislation here but the "Safe Handgun" law was not about $$$ it does not cost that much to get a gun certified for sale, it is a hassle. This article from Clayton Cramer "California Legal Handguns" describes the idiotic process: http://www.claytoncramer.com/popular/CaliforniaLegalHandguns.PDF
and as he rightly notes:
"But what about the requirement that the gun work reliably? That’s not safety. Indeed, a
cynic would suggest that by the definition of the gun control advocates, a gun that never
fires is “safer” than one that works perfectly. Pure and simple, this requirement was aimed
at the inexpensively made “Ring of Fire” manufacturers: Jennings, Bryco, Raven Arms, and
a few others that used to be based in Southern California. These are guns that are actually
more reliable than their appearance would suggest, but which have one unforgivable fault
in the eyes of the gun control advocates: poor people (which in California, mostly means
black and Hispanic people) can afford them."
 
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BGutzman

New member
Kalfornia is only concerned with granting certain nonexistent rights for "illicit" pharmaceuticals, constitutionally protected gun rights have little place in this alternate reality state...
 
B

blume357

New member
Just an observation... in the title of this post:

"Dumb questions on California Hand Guns rules"

the word "Dumb" is in the wrong place......
 
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