Dumb question
- Thread starter CZ_
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I believe a lot has to do with overall case length and excessive pressures associated with deep seated bullets. When the .40 cartridge first came out most manufacturers loaded it with a 180 gr bullet. Because the .40 cartridge was designed to fire from a 9mm size platform instead of the 10mm/45 size frame there had to be some changes made. One of these was bullet profile for FMJ practice ammo.
Conventional round nose FMJ's in 180grs would seat too deeply in the case causing excessive pressure levels. By changing the bullet profile to a truncated type bullet you can still get 180grs in bullet weight, but with an shorter overall bullet. Why this practice is continued in the lighter bullet weights, I have no idea. I'm sure they could make a 155gr bullet in a round nose and still maintain an acceptable OAL without seating the bullet too deeply to raise pressure levels.
If I'm wrong folks..feel free to correct me, but this is how I understand it.
Good Shooting
RED
Conventional round nose FMJ's in 180grs would seat too deeply in the case causing excessive pressure levels. By changing the bullet profile to a truncated type bullet you can still get 180grs in bullet weight, but with an shorter overall bullet. Why this practice is continued in the lighter bullet weights, I have no idea. I'm sure they could make a 155gr bullet in a round nose and still maintain an acceptable OAL without seating the bullet too deeply to raise pressure levels.
If I'm wrong folks..feel free to correct me, but this is how I understand it.
Good Shooting
RED
Redlg155 , I think you did a fine job.
I've never seen true ball ammo for a .40, but I do reload a 165gr round nose, flat point in .40 made by Rainer Ballistics. Also this past weekend at the IDPA shoot one of the shooters showed me the same bullet (rd nose ft pt) and said it was a factory load, I just can't remember the manufacturer. As companies begin to get away from the 180's we'll see more ball type ammo for .40. It will also get a great deal more accurate.
I've never seen true ball ammo for a .40, but I do reload a 165gr round nose, flat point in .40 made by Rainer Ballistics. Also this past weekend at the IDPA shoot one of the shooters showed me the same bullet (rd nose ft pt) and said it was a factory load, I just can't remember the manufacturer. As companies begin to get away from the 180's we'll see more ball type ammo for .40. It will also get a great deal more accurate.
Thanks for answering the question guys. Here is another question. What bullet weight should I stick with in .40. I am a 9mm/.45 ACP guy, and don't have much experience with the .40. Does any particular bullet weight generally have more accuracy and/or less snappy recoil?
I currently have 180 grain Speer Lawman, which I will try out once I pick the gun up (10 day waiting period is over on the 26th). In .45 ACP, all my pistols love shooting that brand (specifically, the 230 grain Lawman) so I am hoping it is also accurate in .40?
I currently have 180 grain Speer Lawman, which I will try out once I pick the gun up (10 day waiting period is over on the 26th). In .45 ACP, all my pistols love shooting that brand (specifically, the 230 grain Lawman) so I am hoping it is also accurate in .40?
P
PreserveFreedom
Guest
Most people stick with 180 grain ammo when shooting ball ammo in 40S&W. You might as well stay with the heavier round. It gives you a better "thud." Not quite as large as 45ACP, but it has more velocity to make up for the lost 50 grains.
A while ago, the same question was asked about the 40S&W always being a flat point. Some felt that it might be because the round was designed as a hollowpoint. That would make the bullet profile the same as a flat point FMJ, the only difference being if the middle was dug out. A round FMJ would have a completely different profile and may have a larger OAL.
A while ago, the same question was asked about the 40S&W always being a flat point. Some felt that it might be because the round was designed as a hollowpoint. That would make the bullet profile the same as a flat point FMJ, the only difference being if the middle was dug out. A round FMJ would have a completely different profile and may have a larger OAL.
CZ
I have found the 155 and 165 gr bullets to be most accurate in .40. I think you will find some others who agree. Good luck, finding anything in those weights. I can't think of any manufacturers who produce the lighter gr bullets in factory ammo. I reload all of mine and I personally won't shoot 180's.
I have found the 155 and 165 gr bullets to be most accurate in .40. I think you will find some others who agree. Good luck, finding anything in those weights. I can't think of any manufacturers who produce the lighter gr bullets in factory ammo. I reload all of mine and I personally won't shoot 180's.
I've been trying different loads out of my Taurus PT100 AFS for quite a while now. Out of all the different factory loads to date I prefer the Speer Gold Dot in 155 gr. It has a little more bark but the performance is about the best so far. I keep 3 clips ready to roll just in case. I will still try different loads but so far this seems to be the best out of my weapon.
CZ
I stay away from 180's because I feel that its too much bullet for such a short case (when compared to 10 mm). The 180-200gr bullets were made for 10 mm, so it doesn't make sense to cut the case and keep the same bullet and powder. All this gives you is more pressure and I don't want anything to do with that. I went out last night and shot up the remainder of some UMC 180's I had and I was reminded of how much I hate them. They are brutal and inaccurate to shoot. I just wanted the 'once fired' brass to reload up some more 165 gr round nose flat points.
I recently found an article that outlined the FBI's recent search for a new .40 bullet size. They also decided on the 165 gr. They had a bunch of scientific and ballistic reasons why, but I shoot 165 and 155's because they are the most accurate of all my reloads. I determined this on my own prior to reading the FBI article. It just felt good to know they agree.
I stay away from 180's because I feel that its too much bullet for such a short case (when compared to 10 mm). The 180-200gr bullets were made for 10 mm, so it doesn't make sense to cut the case and keep the same bullet and powder. All this gives you is more pressure and I don't want anything to do with that. I went out last night and shot up the remainder of some UMC 180's I had and I was reminded of how much I hate them. They are brutal and inaccurate to shoot. I just wanted the 'once fired' brass to reload up some more 165 gr round nose flat points.
I recently found an article that outlined the FBI's recent search for a new .40 bullet size. They also decided on the 165 gr. They had a bunch of scientific and ballistic reasons why, but I shoot 165 and 155's because they are the most accurate of all my reloads. I determined this on my own prior to reading the FBI article.
It just felt good to know they agree.Which bullet weight...
CZ, I'm no expert but I have managed to find a few articles on the subject. Most things I've read suggest that you avoid the 180 grain for various reasons, and that the 165 grain seems to be most accurate on average. About the only thing they seem to like about the 180 is that perceived recoil is lower. FWIW, they make interesting reading. I'll include a couple of links here. By the way, my P99 in .40 is much more accurate with 165's than with 180's, and my wife's K-40 behaves the same but to a lesser degree. Best of luck!
http://greent.com/40Page/general/middleweight.htm
http://greent.com/40Page/
CZ, I'm no expert but I have managed to find a few articles on the subject. Most things I've read suggest that you avoid the 180 grain for various reasons, and that the 165 grain seems to be most accurate on average. About the only thing they seem to like about the 180 is that perceived recoil is lower. FWIW, they make interesting reading. I'll include a couple of links here. By the way, my P99 in .40 is much more accurate with 165's than with 180's, and my wife's K-40 behaves the same but to a lesser degree. Best of luck!
http://greent.com/40Page/general/middleweight.htm
http://greent.com/40Page/
The one thing that draws me to the 180 grain bullets is the lower (sharpness) of recoil. I don't care for the sharpness in the 155 grain I tried. I like the way the .45 ACP recoils a lot more than the way the .40 recoils.
Since you guys are telling me not to go 180 though, maybe I'll try the 165...since it appears to give the best accuracy.
Since you guys are telling me not to go 180 though, maybe I'll try the 165...since it appears to give the best accuracy.
Factory 165 gr bullets are usually only found in defensive loads and those are definitely snappy. Also it depends on the gun you are shooting the .40 out of. I for one, don't care for a Glock 23 its just brutal, but the Glock 22 and 35 shoot great. My Steyr in .40 is great.
My reloads are great because they have just a little more recoil than a factory 9 mm. They are reduced loads, comfortable to shoot and in the long term will be easier on my guns. If you don't reload, look into it. Its only saves me about 20% compared to factory, but I get exactly what I want, a 165 gr .40 that recoils like a 9 mm and is deadly accurate.
My reloads are great because they have just a little more recoil than a factory 9 mm. They are reduced loads, comfortable to shoot and in the long term will be easier on my guns. If you don't reload, look into it. Its only saves me about 20% compared to factory, but I get exactly what I want, a 165 gr .40 that recoils like a 9 mm and is deadly accurate.
Bullit,
About those factory loaded light-weight .40's...
I just checked my supply and I have:
Federal American Eagle 155gr FMJ
Speer Gold Dot 155gr HP
Winchester Silvertip 155gr HP
I'm sure I had other brands in similar weight, but they've been all used up.
A quick peek at the Graf & Sons catalog shows bullet weights available in the following weights: 135, 140, 155, 165, 180 grains. Those are all factory loads.
Of course, you probably save money by reloading, but the variety is out there.
About those factory loaded light-weight .40's...
I just checked my supply and I have:
Federal American Eagle 155gr FMJ
Speer Gold Dot 155gr HP
Winchester Silvertip 155gr HP
I'm sure I had other brands in similar weight, but they've been all used up.
A quick peek at the Graf & Sons catalog shows bullet weights available in the following weights: 135, 140, 155, 165, 180 grains. Those are all factory loads.
Of course, you probably save money by reloading, but the variety is out there.
Thanks for the advice guys. I have tried a Glock 23 before BTW and I agree that it is brutal (in terms of "sharp" recoil). The .40 I will pick up Sunday is the CZ 75, which has a lot of weight to it and I hope the weight will help reduce the "snap". My CZ 97B in .45 has extremely mild recoil, so I hope that their .40 version will also soak recoil up well. I will try a bunch of different bullet weights just to get an idea how the CZ shoots for accuracy with different ammo. Since this is not going to be my home defense gun, I won't be putting defense loads through it...just the semi-wadd cutters that seem to come standard in .40.
Coltdriver
New member
In my research I learned that the Federal Marshalls and the FBI had gone to a 165 gr bullet with the 40. The logic presented was that the velocity came up pretty good with the 165 vs the 180. I don't know if that is the full story or not.
I shoot 165 Quik Shoks from my Kahr MK40 and it is snappy but managable.
I shoot 165 Quik Shoks from my Kahr MK40 and it is snappy but managable.